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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#661

Post by PragmaticPulp »

koonsolo wrote: post #218
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

Mastercard just tries to be relevant in an environment where they will not be relevant anymore. Just look at the Nano cryptocurrency for example: 0 fees and Crypto is going to disrupt a lot of things. If it's not clear by now, you will be in for a surprise.

> Just look at the Nano cryptocurrency for example: 0 fees and Sounds great! But why can't we just use that technology to move our existing money around? Why do I have to trade my USD for NANO, transfer the NANO, and then trade the NANO back to USD at the other end?

Why wouldn't I simply engage with a bank that lets me use the same open-source technology to simply move the USD from one place to another? I don't want to become an investor in Nano just to transact any more than I want to buy PayPal shares to use PayPal.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#662

Post by AmericanChopper »

tobias3 wrote: post #136
maxkwallace wrote: post #75

To everyone saying "my credit card pays me 2% to use it", no, your credit card charges the merchant 2.3%+ to use it, that gets bundled into the price, and they give you 2% of that as a kickback.

Here in the EU, credit card transaction fees are capped at 0,3%. So no shenanigans, but cryptocurrencies would have to fall within this range as well.

> Here in the EU, credit card transaction fees are capped at 0,3%. So no shenanigans

This isn’t true. Interchange fees are capped at that rate, but that’s only one portion of the total transactional fee charged to merchants for processing card payments.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#663

Post by PragmaticPulp »

nybble41 wrote: post #565
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a different situation when the currency itself is deflationary, not the goods being purchased. Instead of thinking in terms of buying a phone, think of this in terms of capital allocation and investment. Deflationary currencies are designed to accrue value to those who don't use them. An economy built on the idea of incentivizing people to not spend any money is not good at all. Everyone knows about the downside…

> An economy built on the idea of incentivizing people to not spend any money is not good at all. It's better not to induce anyone to over-spend or under-spend. I would not advocate a deliberately deflationary monetary policy any more than I would advocate a deliberately inflationary one. The supply should remain as constant as possible so as to avoid injecting noise into a very important economic signaling mechanism…

Bitcoin, as a currency, is deflationary.

Bitcoin, as an asset, is wildly inflating. I could buy 1 BTC for $5K not long ago, but now it costs me almost $50K to buy the same exact amount of Bitcoin.

Inflation isn't strictly a function of the fed or the supply. Inflation can happen from demand-pull, which is definitely happening in the Bitcoin world.

Now that the cryptocurrency cat is out of the bag, the idea of a singular deflationary cryptocurrency only works if you pretend that all of the other cryptocurrencies don't exist.

Instead, we're seeing constant supply growth in the cryptocurrency space as new altcoins come online all the time. Even Bitcoin itself has been forked multiple times, effectively increasing the supply (albeit with caveats). I can trivially exchange BTC for BCH, so it doesn't really matter much that they're on different chains now.

The idea that cryptocurrency supply is fixed only works if you deliberately ignore all but 1 cryptocurrency.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#664

Post by PragmaticPulp »

pmontra wrote: post #505
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't work. You can't guarantee that you haven't memorized the private key. You can't guarantee you haven't traded the same key multiple times. The only way the receiver can truly guarantee ownership of the BTC is to put it in a transaction, which costs money.

They downvoted you but technically you are right. And yet MasterCard could make it work because double spending those coins would be a fraud and they'll go after their double spending customers. They can guarantee the coins with the weight of their legal department.

Regardless, "spending" Bitcoin in an economy where Bitcoin isn't the dominant currency will, on average, result in downward price pressure.

Unless you restrict the transactions to only be among Bitcoin users, which isn't going to happen because the providers make their money from exchange fees.

It's strange that so many commenters are going through mental gymnastics to pretend that the only rational thing to do with Bitcoin is to buy or trade it, but never sell it.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#665

Post by netflixandkill »

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #560
Thorentis wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is encouraging people in such countries to use better than making the US Dollar more accessible to these people? If stability is the goal, I find it hard to accept that DogeCoin is the answer to the developing/third world's economic problems.

I don't think DogeCoin is the answer to anything at all, tbh.

It was the answer to "how many people can I get in on this joke?" while playing around with litecoin.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#666

Post by heavyset_go »

forty wrote: post #391
tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that this aspect of the conversation so often gets replaced by everything else. This is (IMO) the most important point about digital currency - the promise of providing consumers in unstable economies the chance to convert to a more stable currency without government intrusion. We're still not there, but that should be the north star for crypto (again, in my opinion).

Why would someone give btc against a more risky local money? What I wonder is, why is it more convenient for someone who has some unstable money available to trade it for btc rather than euro directly for example? - i assume the end goal is to convert it back to a real money you can use to purchase thing?

They wouldn't. A lot of cryptocurrency justifications hinge on made up scenarios. They also ignore the fact that it costs money to even send or spend most cryptocurrency, or the fact that it must be liquidated in 99.9% of spending scenarios, and ignore the challenges in buying or selling cryptocurrency in the first place.

Most exchanges require several forms of ID and verification to buy or sell cryptocurrency. I had to use a smartphone to take a picture of myself with my photo ID before I could even use most exchanges. Someone who doesn't have photo ID, computer or a working smartphone are out of luck in that scenario.

Bitcoin might make sense for remittance, with the intention that it is then liquidated after being received.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#667

Post by boogies »

gbear605 wrote: post #652
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you've got two political systems each vying for legitimacy. They each have their own currency, and their own set of policy outcomes. Is it so laughable that whichever one achieves the best results for its users will be the one to establish both market and political dominance? Is letting such a competition play out via the value of their respective currencies any better than traditional means of resolving this…

A market doesn’t work in countries without a strong government, since for a market to work, there needs to be faith that the other party isn’t going to break the rules of the market. If you’re trying to sell your goods and someone comes in with a gun, then you have to hope that either you have a gun or can call police. If you have to resort to using a gun, then that leads to huge costs and lots of dead people.

> If you have to resort to using a gun, then that leads to huge costs and lots of dead people.

Is that more true for you using a gun than it is for police using a gun?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#668

Post by heavyset_go »

ur-whale wrote: post #366
u678u wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No if you have millions or billions basic wire transfers are instant and cheap. It is more interesting for if you have a few hundred or a few thousand dollars, where a $10-$50 fee is significant. Or you want to bypass regulations or bureaucracy eg send money to a friend in Argentina or Lebanon which have currency controls.

> basic wire transfers are instant and cheap This is woefully incorrect. Wire transfers are neither instant nor cheap, depending on the source and destination country. If you wire from US to US, or EU to EU, they yeah, maybe. The moment you move large sums across borders, especially to /from countries that aren't in the US's "good guys" list (as dumb and childish as that sounds, this is typical language in USistan fo…

It costs a few dollars to transfer money via Western Union, and the receiver can pick up the money almost instantly.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#669

Post by heavyset_go »

smartties wrote: post #392
red_trumpet wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not true. Every Bitcoin transaction is conserved in the blockchain, so a government can easily reconstruct the money flow.

And the transactions made on the exchange ? and decentralized exchange ? Can they all be tracked and reconstructed ?

Pretty sure exchanges need to follow KYC laws.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#670

Post by brianobush »

faffe wrote: post #569
throw89323432 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had contractor on Litecoin in Russia for 6 months. Worked pretty well.

Out of curiosity, can I know why you did use Litecoin rather than others crypto???

Speed of transactions and less fees.
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