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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#611

Post by JulianRaphael »

crazydoggers wrote: post #523

There’s always lots of bluster and comments about cryptocurrency with things like this and not always much concrete information. I think as a tech community here on HN we should try to focus on why these changes are occurring so quickly and what the repercussions are. Let’s talk constructively about the risks and opportunities more than we do about who’s buying, who’s selling, on and on.... is it a bubble.. does it h…

I like the spirit of your comment - that's the actual hacker mindset. Way too many comments on Bitcoin/Crypto-related submissions on HN are just knee-jerk reactions that don't really contribute to a constructive conversation. When I started lurking on HN in 2010, it was a very different culture. I miss these days!

Regarding your concern around economic inequality: why do you think that people would fall further behind? I'd argue that cryptocurrencies have had a positive effect on inequality, particularly in countries like Argentina, Nigeria, Venezuela, etc. Without cryptocurrencies, people in these countries - particularly the ones who don't have assets in other countries - would have lost a lot of wealth due to the financial instability of their respective economies. As cryptocurrencies are here to stay, I'd even argue that they are currently still underpriced and hence provide many people from the lower income strata of society in 1st world countries with an opportunity to improve their financial wellbeing. This might not be true for people who don't understand technology, but then I ask myself what the current system has to offer to improve inequality for those who lag behind economically and in terms of education.

A constructive idea how we could avoid further deterioration in terms of economic inequality: countries / communities could set up cryptocurrency trusts similar to Norway's Oil investment funds that are funded from cryptocurrency that was mined from e.g. excess energy in the grid from renewables. They could then invest a certain percentage of their cryptocurrency in trustworthy DeFi platforms to further increase yield. Returns from these trusts are invested into causes that benefit the public, e.g. education, health care, etc.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#612

Post by Solvitieg »

nexthash wrote: post #601
Solvitieg wrote: post #585

It's bizarre that in this tread, the US dollar is treated like an immaculate flawless tool for transferring value. But in every thread about economics, its agreed the US dollar lacks trusts, is being manipulated by the fed, and is the leading cause of gross wealth inequality.

What is your evidence for these claims? Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies go through multiple price fluctuations a day. The American dollar currently underpins and backs a majority of the world's financial system [1]. Sure it isn't flawless, but its way better than something that has no backing from anything . I would prefer to use the currency issued by the world's most powerful independent state, because they are…

I'm not making claims, I'm posting my opinion about what I read on this website.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#613

Post by imtringued »

arcticbull wrote: post #418
rank0 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very interesting I was not familiar with the concept of velocity. It still seems to me that velocity can vary depending on the underlying entity. So unless every asset has the same velocity measure as the items in the CPI basket, it seems that there has to be some amount of inflation somewhere like possibly US equities.

The idea of velocity is pretty simple. If you print a $1T coin and hand it to me, then I throw it in a safe and forget the code, did the increase in supply cause any material increase in inflation experienced at the point of sale by the average person? Probably not. The supply went up, but the average velocity went down commensurately. How this interacts with assets is in my opinion not super clear. Pricing of assets…

The velocity of a particular Bitcoin arrives at 0 given enough time. Bitcoin get lost. These Bitcoin cannot move and thus contribute to the deflation of Bitcoin. They effectively shrink the money supply.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#614

Post by tgraves83 »

tw04 wrote: post #600
tgraves83 wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like you bothered reading the link I posted. Price volatility caused by a "run on the bank" doesn't really matter if you are sending payments between two people using different currencies. The link I posted describes an app that as an example allows a payment to be sent from someone in the US to someone in Europe and have it settled instantly. Bitcoin is only used on the end of each transaction and c…

I DID read the link. As with everything bitcoin related, the actual meat of the problem is hand-waved away with marketing BS. >Strike then takes the bitcoins and automatically converts them back into Euros using its real-time automated risk management and trading infrastructure. Really, they convert Bitcoin into Euros with a "real-time automated risk management and trading infrastructure"? That explains literally not…

Have you ever used a cryptocurrency exchange? I admit, there have been some bad actors in the space as there is in any nascent technology, but at this point there are a number of legitimate and even regulated exchanges in multiple jurisdictions.

You can easily look up the volume traded on these exchanges. There are still some shady exchanges out there so I’d mainly look at the more trusted/regulated ones like Coinbase Pro, Bitstamp, Gemini, Kraken etc.

Strike has already released a working app for US customers that I’ve been using without issue for payments to friends and family as an alternative to Venmo/PayPal.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#615

Post by AgentME »

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #259
systemvoltage wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an important point I missed, thanks. I am totally on board a pegged crypto currency that tracks US dollar. For me and many others I presume, stability is far more important than anything else that crypto currencies have to offer.

Well there are certainly plenty to choose from, the major downside to stablecoins is that you need to place trust in the mechanism that ensures they are actually stable. Tether is the biggest one and it's pretty unclear whether they are trust worthy. IMO one of the most important properties of cryptocurrencies is that you only need to place trust in the code & that the miners are selfish.

Not to invalidate your point, but Tether is a particularly untrustworthy example. USDC is another centralized stablecoin that's more transparently managed than Tether, and then DAI is a decentralized stablecoin that keeps its value through a smart contract that manages collateral and minting in order to keep its value steady.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#616

Post by hntrader »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #610
hntrader wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say the same things about artwork or gold. To me these things are totally useless, paint on a canvas (when I could just look at a photo of the same thing) and a shiny piece of metal, no utility whatsoever, who cares? Well the value doesn't come from one person's assertion of value, it's supply and demand. Apparently enough people like paint on a canvas and shiny metal for their own reasons.

Paint on a canvas doesn't waste the same amount of electricity as the country of Argentina.

That's a negative externality which doesn't pertain to how valid the current valuation is, which is the subject I was addressing.

Externalities by definition don't feature into the price, although perhaps they do only to a very small extent in the case of BTC because of political/regulation risks leading to a risk premium effect.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#617

Post by imtringued »

BTCOG wrote: post #172
raiyu wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is a modern day example of what happens when you have a currency that has deflation instead of inflation at it's core. It becomes actually more expensive to buy anything in the present, as a result, consumers stop purchasing, and as a result economic activity decreases. DigitalGold is also non-sensical, because that is simply designed to track against inflation, to prevent the loss of today's buying power tom…

@ArcticBull - Why would I ever want to make 100% ROI on a rigged stock market when I've made thousands of % in hard money?

The irony behind bubbles is that you cannot profit off of them by acting rationally. If everyone participating in the bubble were acting 100% rationally, the bubble wouldn't exist in the first place.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#618

Post by MadSudaca »

jcbrand wrote: post #480
Shoue wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentive is the exact thing you're worried about: merchants get to avoid fees. If Nano ever takes off as a payment method, then you'd probably see e.g. large grocery chains operating Nano nodes to avoid fees.

It looks to me like Nano will suffer from the free-rider problem. If Nano becomes an established currency, then a grocery chain can just rely on the existing Nano nodes to process its transactions (which will still be free), they don't need to run their own node for it.

They can publicize their brand with a node. Moreover, if they want special functionality they may have to run their own node. In general, running nodes is so cheap that is not prohibitive to wider audiences. Today there are easily more than a hundred nodes running, exchanges, services, etc. The number is bound to increase as the ecosystem grows.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#619

Post by tw04 »

tgraves83 wrote: post #614
tw04 wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I DID read the link. As with everything bitcoin related, the actual meat of the problem is hand-waved away with marketing BS. >Strike then takes the bitcoins and automatically converts them back into Euros using its real-time automated risk management and trading infrastructure. Really, they convert Bitcoin into Euros with a "real-time automated risk management and trading infrastructure"? That explains literally not…

Have you ever used a cryptocurrency exchange? I admit, there have been some bad actors in the space as there is in any nascent technology, but at this point there are a number of legitimate and even regulated exchanges in multiple jurisdictions. You can easily look up the volume traded on these exchanges. There are still some shady exchanges out there so I’d mainly look at the more trusted/regulated ones like Coinbas…

I guess you still haven't explained where the liquidity is coming from. Coinbase and the rest explicitly call out the fact that there is NOT instant settlement, and that your request may or may not be fulfilled at the agreed price.

That means Strike needs to have reserve currency to cover any fluctuations between the time they "instantly settle" your transaction, and when they actually are able to convert that into USD or Euro or insert currency at an exchange.

I keep getting downvotes and yet nobody can explain the magic handwaving to me with anything other than "but my transaction worked". It's great that's working when their transaction flow is probably measured in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, but plenty of pyramid schemes churn along just fine until they grow.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#620

Post by randomopining »

nexthash wrote: post #598
randomopining wrote: post #32

Bitcoin = store of value. Network effect is reducing the chance of government intervention, as well as blockchain tail risks. Getting 1 of the 21 million bitcoins is like decentralized proof of saying "I had 48k worth of value in Feb 2021!" It locks in the value that you created forever. Otherwise governments will just keep printing money, and your value gets diluted arbitrarily. Assuming the mechanisms of protection…

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if a government wants to prevent you from using a cryptocurrency it has many tools at its disposal. Firstly, they control the ground upon which you stand. If they don't like that you are using crypto, they will simply arrest you and charge you with a newly-formed crime like 'digital tax evasion'. Secondly, if they can't find who is using crypto, they have the power to shut down the Int…

1. As larger entities are getting into it, it will decrease the chance that the government cracks down.

2. There are obviously ways to transact anonymously, also P2P/OTC.

3. The government gets to tax all exchange crypto... easy revenue source.

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