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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#601

Post by nexthash »

Solvitieg wrote: post #585

It's bizarre that in this tread, the US dollar is treated like an immaculate flawless tool for transferring value. But in every thread about economics, its agreed the US dollar lacks trusts, is being manipulated by the fed, and is the leading cause of gross wealth inequality.

What is your evidence for these claims? Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies go through multiple price fluctuations a day. The American dollar currently underpins and backs a majority of the world's financial system [1]. Sure it isn't flawless, but its way better than something that has no backing from anything. I would prefer to use the currency issued by the world's most powerful independent state, because they are probably gonna be around for a while.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_use_of_the_U.S._...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#602

Post by imtringued »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #262
arcticbull wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation adjusted $/sqft on average across the US housing costs exactly the same as it did in the 1970s. With interest rates 1/5 of what they were back then, each square foot is actually much more affordable. I admit I misspoke, because of course, monetary policy controls interest rates, but I maintain that a change in affordability is not dominated by inflation but rather other social policies. Houses are twice is…

> Inflation adjusted $/sqft on average across the US housing costs exactly the same as it did in the 1970s. > Inflation adjusted Inflation is a result of monetary policy. So when you’ve adjusted the price for the monetary policy, you see that 50 years of capital accumulation and efficiency has been soaked up by monetary policy. > I admit I misspoke, because of course, monetary policy controls interest rates, but I ma…

>I’m not sure how to proceed. The notion that one could print money and have each currency unit correspond to the same amount of physical goods is prima facie false.

The entire problem is that it's not false at all. There are various ways to produce more physical goods without employing more domestic workers. Every time the fed is printing money that money gets invested in a way that does not result in decreased unemployment. It's being used to produce more physical goods which keeps the price of physical goods constant.

Ultimately the only truly scarce "good" is labor. Everything derives from it. If prices are not rising that means labor is not scare at all, which is idiotic because there are lots of ways to productively deploy that labor.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#603

Post by arcticbull »

vbezhenar wrote: post #255
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

> Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price.

> I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

This is quite a tenuous argument however.

First, currency is only intended to be stored for as long as necessary to purchase the necessities of life or value preserving investments. Losing 250% of value over 7 years is an inflation rate of 14% annually, a hair over 1% per month. At the end of each month you're left with 99% of the value you started the month with. That's sub-optimal but certainly not a dealbreaker if everything else were stable and functional.

The early 1980s in the US had similar inflation rates [1].

Assuming your country isn't sanctioned you could have dropped that money into all sorts of safe havens.

Further, the issue is of course transaction fees. They're about $20 each right now, and the only place those fees are palatable are rich countries with stable financial systems. In countries without stable financial systems they're prohibitively expensive. You can avoid that with Layer 2, but of course, Layer 2 offers none of the benefits you seek with Bitcoin in the first place. Exchanges are centralized, trustful and censorable.

It genuinely, truly meets the needs of nobody who isn't speculating.

It's basically the "ruined fresco" of payment methods. From a distance it looks right but as you zoom in you realize mistakes were most definitely made. [2]

[1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-i...

[2] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/09/20/161466361...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#604

Post by ForHackernews »

imtringued wrote: post #538
centimeter wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPI is a joke of a metric. Very few economists take it seriously.

It really isn't a joke. It tracks changes in cost of living pretty well. The real mystery is why the fed is committing to supply side economics in a demand starved economy. That's the exact opposite of what you should do.

Does the Fed have anything it can do on the demand side? I'm pretty rusty on my macroeconomics, but I thought you needed fiscal policy to buy stuff if you want to juice demand.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#605

Post by edgyquant »

panarky wrote: post #599
edgyquant wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren’t talking about assets and what you’ve just said is the reason we have controlled inflation. Currency isn’t supposed to incentivize hoarding it, quite the opposite in fact.

Inflation is only "controlled" for some baskets of goods. If your basket of goods consists of salty snacks and consumer electronics, then yes, inflation is controlled. But if your basket of goods consists of Hamptons real estate and fine art, then your inflation rate feels a lot steeper. Investors are finding it very difficult to discover investments that don't depreciate with respect to that second basket of goods.…

I’m talking about currency not appreciating commodities, assets or investment. The US dollar, and the currencies of most western nations, is/are in fact controlled and inflate at a targeted rate.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#606

Post by arcticbull »

reedjosh wrote: post #559
halukakin wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say everyone in an unstable economy were paid in usd. If that country has foreign deficit, if that country has high government debt. What happens? How can the government keep paying its own employees? How does it pay retiree checks? How does it subsidize farming when needed? As long as a country cannot print usd itself, this is a fast shortcut to unemployment, hunger, etc... Strong currencies are not the solution to…

> Say everyone in an unstable economy were paid in usd. Then that country would be paying the unseen tax of inflation as the US banking system prints more and more USD. Said country would basically be a US colony.

This happens in many countries already, the inflation tax of the US banking system is 2% and not an issue. That does not make Panama or Hong Kong US colonies.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#607

Post by hntrader »

nexthash wrote: post #591
tboyd47 wrote: post #547

It's important for people to read the actual press release: https://mstr.cd/3tLaPZM There's good info here which will be new info to many. Why did they do this? It turns out that about a third of Nigerians report using or holding cryptocurrency (!). https://www.statista.com/chart/18345/crypto-currency-adoptio... Second place are Vietnam and the Phillipines. For all, the #1 reason was for remittances. Haven't we all h…

Set this chart to "all" and tell me that this price movement is not a bubble. There is no earthly reason for why a "BitCoin" is worth $47,459.66 as of this post. https://www.coindesk.com/price/bitcoin Cryptocurrency adoption in 3rd world countries like Nigeria, Vietnam, and the Philippines is not a good thing. It's actually really sad, because it means they cannot rely on or trust their country's currency. Therefore,…

I can say the same things about artwork or gold.

To me these things are totally useless, paint on a canvas (when I could just look at a photo of the same thing) and a shiny piece of metal, no utility whatsoever, who cares?

Well the value doesn't come from one person's assertion of value, it's supply and demand. Apparently enough people like paint on a canvas and shiny metal for their own reasons.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#608

Post by nexthash »

rantwasp wrote: post #438
Kiro wrote: post #210

The public thinks Bitcoin is the currency of hackers. Decentralized, technical, innovative and challenging the whole financial backbone. In reality... We have threads like this. Never seen so much hate for Bitcoin as on HN.

“People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.” Bitcoin itself may end up being worthless or being a fortune. The block-chain technology is the revolutionary part that is here to stay and will only continue to grow in the future.

Don't invest in what you don't understand is the #1 rule of investing. If you jump off the deep end without knowing what's at the bottom, you are at a high risk of losing what you put in. New technology always comes with this risk. That's kind of why most don't touch crypto - its far too technically complex for them to even comprehend the risks.

If you've followed crypto and blockchain for long enough though, you realize that the risks are high and the value is low. It's a shitty technology, and a shitty investment. The cryptoverse is filled with volatility, no real-world "thing" to tie value back to, and scams upon scams.

Blockchain is an innefficient, energy-guzzling excuse for a database. Oh but you forgot its decentralized So what? Most applications don't need decentralization - it makes them inefficient and slow. Why do you think the general trend of the world has been centralization into hubs, cities, and services? Here's a nice refuter of the blockchain hype:

http://doyouneedablockchain.com/

And of course, the classic:

https://twitter.com/vgcerf/status/1019987651301081089

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#609

Post by jimmydorry »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #4

The game Paypal currently plays with Crypto is the closest thing to printing money I have ever seen: Their users can "buy and sell Bitcoin" and pay "no fees". How does Paypal make money? "From the spread". The difference between bid and ask. And who sets the spread? Drumroll ... Paypal! Since you cannot transfer your bitcoins out, when you sell your bitcoins, Paypal pays you whatever they like. So far, Paypal only of…

Not quite to that extreme, but both banks and paypal do the same with fiat too. They make A LOT of money on the exchange from one currency to another at rates that they determine.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#610

Post by Tijdreiziger »

hntrader wrote: post #607
nexthash wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Set this chart to "all" and tell me that this price movement is not a bubble. There is no earthly reason for why a "BitCoin" is worth $47,459.66 as of this post. https://www.coindesk.com/price/bitcoin Cryptocurrency adoption in 3rd world countries like Nigeria, Vietnam, and the Philippines is not a good thing. It's actually really sad, because it means they cannot rely on or trust their country's currency. Therefore,…

I can say the same things about artwork or gold. To me these things are totally useless, paint on a canvas (when I could just look at a photo of the same thing) and a shiny piece of metal, no utility whatsoever, who cares? Well the value doesn't come from one person's assertion of value, it's supply and demand. Apparently enough people like paint on a canvas and shiny metal for their own reasons.

Paint on a canvas doesn't waste the same amount of electricity as the country of Argentina.
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