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America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

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Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#171

Post by tick_tock_tick »

RIMR wrote: post #83
natenthe wrote: post #57

Correction: The Fed's policies have taken $50T of wealth from the Bottom 90%. When you bail out irresponsibly over-leveraged and nearly bankrupted banks and corporations, and pay for those bailouts with tax-payer money, you steal from the poor and give to the rich. Most importantly, when the Fed decides to print money ad nauseam, they create massive asset inflation, which steals from the poor and gives to the rich. T…

Lack of education is the #1 issue here. America's education system emphasizes nationalism and obedience. It doesn't encourage critical thinking or alternative worldviews. We're so deeply entrenched in the "American Dream" (Capitalism & Trickle Down Economics) that we're unable to challenge the current status quo. Worse yet, this is driving us towards the defunding of public education, and the further worsening of our…

Look at USA spending on education the money isn't the issue at all.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#172

Post by samstave »

koboll wrote: post #64
_qulr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is almost a natural law of wealth. The article is about how the post-1975 period differs from the pre-1975 period. So it's demonstrably not a natural law. Natural laws don't change over time.

From 1960 to 1985 the top marginal tax rate crashed from 90% to 30%. And then of course there's the demise of private sector unions, the effects of computerization, etc. Arguably, it was always a natural law, but the 1970s were an inflection point after which capital was allowed to accrue advantages at a much faster rate.

Don't forget things like the Panama Papers and how companies/super-rich figured out how to create thousands of shell companies to hide wealth, and that the journalist who revealed all of this was then murdered.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#173

Post by Arc_Angel »

iso1631 wrote: post #62
Arc_Angel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It shouldn't matter how rich the richest people on earth are." It does. Bezos and Musk can influence Policy. They can influence for their own ends. Also, it depends on HOW they make their money too. Do they create things? or do they buy up everything such as Real Estate and then jack up the price. There's different kinds of "Capitalism". Rent-seeking is the worst kind. Producing goods that people can use is much bet…

Do Bezos and Musk have significant investments outside of Amazon/Muskinc? If Amazon suddenly was nationalised with no compensation for shareholders, what would Bezos' assets be? I'm sure he wouldn't be destitute, but it's not like someone who's become wealthy by shuffling money around (like wall street billionaires).

Koch Bros didn't use their money to influence govt Policy?

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#174

Post by gwbas1c »

natenthe wrote: post #57

Correction: The Fed's policies have taken $50T of wealth from the Bottom 90%. When you bail out irresponsibly over-leveraged and nearly bankrupted banks and corporations, and pay for those bailouts with tax-payer money, you steal from the poor and give to the rich. Most importantly, when the Fed decides to print money ad nauseam, they create massive asset inflation, which steals from the poor and gives to the rich. T…

The reason for the bailouts was to avoid mass unemployment and mass foreclosures. These would have happened had major automakers or major banks went bankrupt.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#175

Post by BlueTie »

natenthe wrote: post #57

Correction: The Fed's policies have taken $50T of wealth from the Bottom 90%. When you bail out irresponsibly over-leveraged and nearly bankrupted banks and corporations, and pay for those bailouts with tax-payer money, you steal from the poor and give to the rich. Most importantly, when the Fed decides to print money ad nauseam, they create massive asset inflation, which steals from the poor and gives to the rich. T…

In David Graeber's book on money, one detail that I always remember when I read a comment like this is how coinage was created so many times throughout history as a way to support an Army.

King makes money -> gives it to the army -> collects money as a tax from all citizens.

It creates a system where all the people in the kingdom have to contribute to the army in some way.

Now The Fed creates money -> gives it to bankers -> gov't collects taxes in that coin.

So we've created a system where your ability to buy things is a derivative of how much you support banking. It's no wonder why everyone is overleveraged and fragile and needs bailouts all the time.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#176

Post by rapsey »

m3kw9 wrote: post #165

This sort of keeps inflation in check. What you really want is to break above the 50%. The extreme case of it being evenly distributed is likely hyper inflation.

Indeed. FED money printing works by keeping the money in the top 1%. By design the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is the only way for the system to continue to function.

Eventually something not-so-pretty is going to happen and it's going to happen quickly. Just look at what and how fast things happened around George Floyd. The anger and mistrust just continues to grow.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#177

Post by zepto »

itsoktocry wrote: post #60
klmadfejno wrote: post #18

"But poor people have iphones now" when people can't afford food, healthcare, or any leisure time is the 2021 equivalent of "Let them eat cake". The balance of wealth is insulting when we have so many basic needs not being met for those at the bottom "Stealing" is a word that gets knee jerk reactions. But the more polite way to phrase it is that the rich benefit from societal structure 1000x more than the poor and ar…

> "But poor people have iphones now" What makes that especially awesome is that Apple and the telecoms have gotten into the business of supplying credit to consumers who would otherwise have no business (literally and figuratively) owning a $1,500 phone when a $250 phone would do.

Given that the thread is about how $50T has been appropriated from the poor it seems odd to say that the poor should use $250 phones, and they have no business owning anything which costs more.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#178

Post by ceejayoz »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #171
RIMR wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of education is the #1 issue here. America's education system emphasizes nationalism and obedience. It doesn't encourage critical thinking or alternative worldviews. We're so deeply entrenched in the "American Dream" (Capitalism & Trickle Down Economics) that we're unable to challenge the current status quo. Worse yet, this is driving us towards the defunding of public education, and the further worsening of our…

Look at USA spending on education the money isn't the issue at all.

I think the argument is less "we don't spend enough" and more "we spend a lot on the wrong sort of education".

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#179

Post by tick_tock_tick »

shadowgovt wrote: post #146
tengbretson wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to do with their money though?

It would cost approximately $216 million to do full lead remediation in Flint, Michigan. That's about 1.1% of the net worth of Jeff Bezos. I indicate this not to imply that Jeff Bezos should be solely responsible for fixing the Flint water supply, but rather to indicate that the resources are there, the problems are there, and what we lack is the will to move resources to fix public problems (be that via taxation or…

It also points out how little money Bezos really has compared to the cost of running the country. Assuming he could get the current market price for all his Amazon shares (impossible) he could fix 100 decently sized problems in the country and be completely broke after. There are way more than 100 decently sized problem.

Re: America's 1% Has Taken $50T From the Bottom 90%

#180

Post by chordalkeyboard »

Pfhreak wrote: post #117
throwawaysea wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it hasn't remained "steady". You're quoting an average and claiming it is steady but there are periods where your savings would have not seen that growth and even seen negative return. Example analysis: http://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/... I'm also not sure what you mean by "sufficient capital". You can by shares one at a time. You don't have to be wealthy to have access to growth in ass…

> You don't have to be wealthy to have access to growth in assets You have to be wealthy to see an appreciable growth in assets. Both the absolute and percentage amounts matter. Yes, anyone can get a 3% return on their investments over time, but that doesn't really matter when you can only invest $1. Living has a certain minimum set of fixed costs, those with sufficient capital can pay for those fixed costs through t…

> You have to be wealthy to see an appreciable growth in assets. Both the absolute and percentage amounts matter. Yes, anyone can get a 3% return on their investments over time, but that doesn't really matter when you can only invest $1.

This is an excellent example of how low interest rates prevent anyone but the wealthy from making money on investments.

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