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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#501

Post by ric2b »

me551ah wrote: post #450
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I don't get why bitcoin is worth so much.Bitcoin is called a store of value like gold, but gold has inherent uses. If the price of gold went to zero then you could still use it to make jewellery or use it for electrical conductivity. If the price of bitcoin goes to zero then it's worthless. It's also not environmentally friendly and bitcoin mining uses up 0.21% of the world's power supply. And all of this energy is u…

> If the price of gold went to zero then you could still use it to make jewellery or use it for electrical conductivity. If the price of bitcoin goes to zero then it's worthless.

Does it really matter if the bottom is 5% instead of 0%? Is that honestly something you think about when choosing an investment?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#502

Post by PragmaticPulp »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #149
the_local_host wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control I've never understood this. With an immutable ledger of all transactions, governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously (or pseudonymously), watch the blockchain, and investigate any un-attributed transactions. It would actually enhance governments' surveillance capabilities against anyone not willing to run t…

1. It would be prohibitively expensive for the government to track down every blockchain transaction IRL to find the identity behind the wallet (if even possible). This cost rises with adoption. 2. Different crypto currencies have different roles. If you want to avoid traceability altogether, use zCash.

You don't need to track down every transaction. You just need to flag the fraudulent/stolen/illegal coins on the blockchain and require exchanges to confiscate those coins as they come through the system.

Blockchain is a public ledger of every Bitcoin transaction ever. It's trivial to track these things. It's trivial to identify downstream coins from upstream illegal activity. Far easier than with traditional currency.

The exchanges will play ball because they want to continue exchanging (making money). The Bitcoin hodlers will play ball because it makes their investment more legitimate and reduces the supply of coins, increasing the value of their stash.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#503

Post by ric2b »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #433
yarcob wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exchange fees are a great way to charge consumers for spending their own money in 2021, when normal credit cards actually pay people 1-2% to use them Credit card companies in the US are a special kind of evil. They charge huge fees, force vendors not to pass the fees on to customers, and then pretend to be the consumer's best friend by returning a bit of the fees to them. They insert themselves between buyer and se…

Paying with Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency requires the customer to pay the transaction fees. Regardless of what you think about credit card companies, which payment method do you think the average consumer would choose? 1) Pay by credit card, get 2% cash back, reserve option to reverse charges if vendor fails to deliver, don't lose all of your money if you lose your credit card. 2) Pay by Bitcoin, pay $8 transa…

Nothing stops you from having Bitcoin credit cards. In fact they already exist.

Dollar bills don't have any of the advantages you mentioned either. How fast and secure do you think mailing them to some company is?

A lot of these arguments are really just cherry-picking whichever portion of the financial system best suits your argument at the time and pretending they're only possible if they're built on top of pieces of paper.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#504

Post by clusterfish »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

The point is money laundering. Why do you think cryptocurrencies are still legal? Politicians need it.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#505

Post by pmontra »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #298
pmontra wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spending cryptocurrency would result in selling that cryptocurrency Not necessarily. I could give you the address of 0.001 BTC over the MasterCard network and you give me something I can eat (I don't know if this is how it will work, but why not?) No BTC is converted in fiat currency. You can hoard you BTCs for years or change them in dollars as soon as you receive them. Your choice. Edit: I must give you the priva…

Doesn't work. You can't guarantee that you haven't memorized the private key. You can't guarantee you haven't traded the same key multiple times. The only way the receiver can truly guarantee ownership of the BTC is to put it in a transaction, which costs money.

They downvoted you but technically you are right. And yet MasterCard could make it work because double spending those coins would be a fraud and they'll go after their double spending customers. They can guarantee the coins with the weight of their legal department.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#506

Post by PragmaticPulp »

Kiro wrote: post #210

The public thinks Bitcoin is the currency of hackers. Decentralized, technical, innovative and challenging the whole financial backbone. In reality... We have threads like this. Never seen so much hate for Bitcoin as on HN.

Bitcoin started as a fun distributed systems experiment.

It mutated into a sort of global pyramid scheme that consumes >0.5% of the world's energy consumption to perform deliberately useless calculations.

Modern bitcoin isn't even about blockchain. Most people just put money in their exchange, click the exchange button, and watch the number go up and down. Never even touches the blockchain. It's all about speculation and convincing others to become the next layer in the pyramid of hodlers.

Modern Bitcoin isn't about tech or distributed systems or challenging the financial system (with $8 transaction fees that go to mining companies and exchange fees that skim every trade). It's been captured by the financial system and pumped as a speculative investment, all so financial institutions and giant mining operations can profit off of the frenzy.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#507

Post by MichaelBurge »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Volatility is a non-issue with the release of CME futures. You can short Bitcoin or Ethereum futures to lock in your price with respect to USD at any time.

The base futures contracts are 5 Bitcoin i.e. notional value of $200k, but that's merely an inconvenience and not a fundamental blocker to subdivide the futures contract or have someone do it for you.

I think for years payment companies like Bitpay have had price guarantees for merchants(probably using futures in the backend), but you do have more counterparty risk dealing with unregulated exchanges.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#508

Post by nemo44x »

maceurt wrote: post #436
nemo44x wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A store of value protected from (and even a beneficiary of) government mismanagement, central bank mismanagement, corporate mismanagement, etc. Because we are forced to generally keep our wealth in things susceptible to political influence it’s nice to have a place to store value away from that. My homes value can be wrecked by a variety of government or central bank policies. Same with my equities and bonds. So havi…

> A store of value protected from (and even a beneficiary of) government mismanagement, central bank mismanagement, corporate mismanagement, etc. Precious Gold/ Silver is way more adverse to risk than crypto and actually exists as a physical good. > My homes value can be wrecked by a variety of government or central bank policies. Crypto can be affected by those things also. I see the utility in certain aspects, but…

Gold can be confiscated and actually has been in the past. Also, it's easy to lose. I personally feel gold has less value than a globally distributed proof of work and value store. Saying that, at what point did I say you should buy gold instead? By all means, hold both BTC and precious metals as a part of a well diversified portfolio.

Maybe there are better decentralized currencies (that's a matter of opinion) but there were better operating systems than Windows. It's about mindshare.

Honestly, just look at BTC's performance over the last 10 years. It has been the #1 asset class by far.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#509

Post by ca98am79 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I am very interested in spending cryptocurrency using my MasterCard, especially and only if it does not result in a capital gains transaction that I have to report on my taxes. If I have to report each transaction to the IRS, I am not interested and will not spend it. If I do NOT have to report it, I will use it all the time

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#510

Post by [deleted] »

waprin wrote: post #324
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

I used to think cryptocurrency was a solution in search of a problem, but the Robinhood fiasco has made me think otherwise. I find their clearing house explanation woefully insufficient in details, and open to the possiblity of being technically the truth but misleading (for example, they gave mass margin to lots of new accounts so they technically lacked collateral, but if they stopped new signups then cleared cash…

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