MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies • Hacker News Board

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#471

Post by jkepler » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:28 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #359

gt565k wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so wrong. Spending crypto using a card is actually what people want in order to avoid taxes on crypto as it's treated as a security from the IRS tax perspective. Anyone who has made money on crypto would love it if they can just spend the crypto as currency and buy every day things with it and remove the tax liability from having to convert to fiat. 15% tax capital gains, no thanks, let me spend it on food an…

Does bartering an investment vehicle allow you to escape capital gains? If so, that seems like a loophole that should be closed. Why should you be exempt from gains on your capital investment? It seems like MasterCard should be reporting each swap of crypto for dollars to the IRS and sending you a tax form at the end of the year. If that's not the case, expect regulatory action to correct it.

Nope, bartering (at least in the US) is still taxable on the fair market value of whatever you're exchanging.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#472

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #232

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin transaction fees are currently around $8. My credit card pays me 2% to use it. No one wants to use the Bitcoin blockchain for average transactions. No one is buying Bitcoin as anything other than a speculative investment right now.

Nano has 0 fees and 1< second transactions. What is your argument against that?

Sounds great. Why not just use the nano technology to let me move around the USD in my bank account?

Why do we have to invent an all new currency for these technologies to use? There is no good reason, other than to make early adopters wealthy, which they would like very much.

What's stopping the US government from taking nano and creating a USD-backed version?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#473

Post by tomca32 » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

sorbits wrote: post #442

tomca32 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live and work in the US, but originally I'm from Croatia. I wire money every month to my family back there. It takes 5 work days for the wire to fully clear. Since 5 days is a full work week, it almost always bleeds over to the weekend and in reality takes 7 days. BTC might still be a terrible system for international transactions but it's still 168 times faster than the one that exists now.

> BTC might still be a terrible system for international transactions but it's still 168 times faster than the one that exists now. It is 168 times faster than what you currently use . There are services like TransferWise who specialize in fast international money transfers. I could imagine that part of your delay is because the bank your family use (in Croatia) does not themselves handle international transfers, so…

That's a fair comment. I don't use Transferwise, rather just wire money via Chase Bank to an IBAN account. You are right that there is an intermediary bank involved in the process.

Also yes, within Europe, an IBAN to IBAN transfer is pretty much instantaneous. However US is not in the IBAN system, so that's a different story.

There are probably multiple reasons why the transfer takes a week, but the spirit of my comment was that an hour long (at worst) transaction time for BTC is actually very fast if you look at it through the international money transfer lens.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#474

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

Shoue wrote: post #375

rank0 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read briefly about nano and its super interesting. I don't really understand how its feasible though. What is the incentive for operating a node in the network? A cryptocurrency that would ACTUALLY be used as a currency needs a resilient network. But if operating a node yields no financial incentive, how is that network supposed to be created?

The incentive is the exact thing you're worried about: merchants get to avoid fees. If Nano ever takes off as a payment method, then you'd probably see e.g. large grocery chains operating Nano nodes to avoid fees.

Cool. But why not just use the nano technology with a USD-backed currency instead?

Cut out all of the alternative currency speculation and just let the technology do the work on people's money.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#475

Post by alantrrs » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

me551ah wrote: post #450

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I don't get why bitcoin is worth so much.Bitcoin is called a store of value like gold, but gold has inherent uses. If the price of gold went to zero then you could still use it to make jewellery or use it for electrical conductivity. If the price of bitcoin goes to zero then it's worthless. It's also not environmentally friendly and bitcoin mining uses up 0.21% of the world's power supply. And all of this energy is u…

We live in the information age. Information has a lot of value, most software companies' main asset is information. Visa, Mastercard and all the banks are companies that are valued very highly because they provide the infrastructure for managing money. Bitcoin is not just the asset, it is the network and the infrastructure. It's a whole system that works semi autonomously by by aligning the incentives of all of its members. Wouldn't you say that's valuable?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#476

Post by tomca32 » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

africanboy wrote: post #447

tomca32 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live and work in the US, but originally I'm from Croatia. I wire money every month to my family back there. It takes 5 work days for the wire to fully clear. Since 5 days is a full work week, it almost always bleeds over to the weekend and in reality takes 7 days. BTC might still be a terrible system for international transactions but it's still 168 times faster than the one that exists now.

honest question: what's the advantage of bitcoins over amazon gift cards (or any other prepaid credit)? they are immediate, cheap and can be exchanged for real money for free.

I don't know. I never tried doing that. Amazon is pretty useless in Croatia so that probably wouldn't work, but there might be some prepaid cards that would.

I don't know, haven't explored that option honestly.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#477

Post by deevolution » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #84

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

How can you possibly back up the claim that the USD is stable? My grandparents were able to buy several acres of land and build a house for 80k in the 1970s. Doing the same today costs 500k+!!! It's completely outrageous. Ths USD is far from stable and anyone who thinks so is either insanely privileged or ignorant!

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#478

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #86

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, why? My credit card pays me 2% to use it. If there’s a problem with my transaction, I click some buttons and the card company reversed the charges. If I lose my card, I call them up and get another one overnight without losing all my money. Why would I give all of that up, pay exchange fees on both ends of a transaction, pay transaction fees (however small), and wait longer for my transactions to clear?

The parent comment is making a philosophical/ethical point - there is a lot of power concentrated into two private companies (Mastercard and Visa). They are the gatekeepers to being able to take payments, without them you can't have consumer income, and they make moral judgements that make it hard to operate certain kinds of (legal) businesses.

Sure, but why not use a stablecoin cryptocurrency?

Why do we need to invent an all-new alternative currency and asset class just to use these technologies? Why do I have to invest in 1 of 1000s of altcoins just to arbitrary change numbers in a shared ledger?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#479

Post by BTCOG » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

me551ah wrote: post #450

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I don't get why bitcoin is worth so much.Bitcoin is called a store of value like gold, but gold has inherent uses. If the price of gold went to zero then you could still use it to make jewellery or use it for electrical conductivity. If the price of bitcoin goes to zero then it's worthless. It's also not environmentally friendly and bitcoin mining uses up 0.21% of the world's power supply. And all of this energy is u…

Do you typically just copy/paste the same comment on every Bitcoin article rather than think of nuanced commentary? Are you a part of ArcticBull's astroturfing campaign?

Edit: I see that you've copy/pasted it once but some other commentary on Bitcoin seems mostly genuine.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#480

Post by jcbrand » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

Shoue wrote: post #375

rank0 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read briefly about nano and its super interesting. I don't really understand how its feasible though. What is the incentive for operating a node in the network? A cryptocurrency that would ACTUALLY be used as a currency needs a resilient network. But if operating a node yields no financial incentive, how is that network supposed to be created?

The incentive is the exact thing you're worried about: merchants get to avoid fees. If Nano ever takes off as a payment method, then you'd probably see e.g. large grocery chains operating Nano nodes to avoid fees.

It looks to me like Nano will suffer from the free-rider problem.

If Nano becomes an established currency, then a grocery chain can just rely on the existing Nano nodes to process its transactions (which will still be free), they don't need to run their own node for it.