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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#271

Post by rank0 »

arcticbull wrote: post #153
throwaway20875 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>CPI is inflation Lol

Right, yeah, if you pretend how much AAPL appreciated matters to anyone, asset inflation counts. Otherwise, it's CPI, and [citation needed] if you want to posit otherwise.

There's actually considerable debate on the subject. I find it reasonable that things which are outside the CPI basket can indeed experience inflation.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/consumerpriceindex....

If 25% of circulating USD were created last year, and our economic value is the same or even diminished, wouldn't it follow that there must be significant inflation?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#272

Post by vmception »

tshaddox wrote: post #266
vmception wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spending cryptocurrency would result in selling that cryptocurrency, which would drive the price down. That’s not what cryptocurrency investors actually want that’s really assuming a lot a closed loop cryptocurrency transaction does not result in selling mastercard may or may not be offering that capability mastercard offering that capability makes the cryptocurrency proponents vision a reality

In fact, for every transaction where a unit of cryptocurrency is bought, that same unit is also sold.

yeah sold for a candy bar and the merchant still has the cryptocurrency and pays their overhead costs in the same cryptocurrency who buy their own candy bars from a different merchant in cryotocurrency

Payment networks like mastercard integrating cryptocurrency make this more practical instead of handwaiving a gradual organic adoption idea

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#273

Post by PragmaticPulp »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #191
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they use any blockchain when they could get the same job done with a database and legal agreements, like they have been doing for decades?

If you send me bitcoin in exchange for a widget, I'm eventually going to want to spend that bitcoin and I may not be doing that on the Visa network. At some point they have to offload those transactions back to the blockchain so the coins can actually get to my wallet. If they go the DB route as you suggest, they would basically be creating Visa Bucks, backed by bitcoin (which they'd have to buy), that can only be sp…

> At some point they have to offload those transactions back to the blockchain so the coins can actually get to my wallet.

The vast majority of Bitcoin exchange participants choose to keep their coins in the exchange, not their own personal wallet.

> If they go the DB route as you suggest, they would basically be creating Visa Bucks, backed by bitcoin (which they'd have to buy), that can only be spent on the Visa network.

Every exchange uses a DB backend.

They only engage with the blockchain when someone performs a withdrawal to another institution that they don't have an agreement with, such as when you withdraw to your wallet.

And you will pay the transaction fees for that blockchain interaction ($8+ currently). If you're not paying transaction fees for other operations on their platform, it's clearly not touching the blockchain.

Every exchange operates this way. It isn't a new concept.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#274

Post by octocop »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #17
tehlike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine basically put it this way: bitcoin can't become medium of exchange before it becomes medium of value. You can read this as: if you are holding btc, it's in your best interest to hold more without selling.

If it’s in your best interest to buy and never sell, why would anyone want to use it for exchange? Bitcoin’s deflationary nature discourages spending and selling, by definition. The high transaction costs discourage it even further.

> If it’s in your best interest to buy and never sell, why would anyone want to use it for exchange?

Define best interest here. I mean saving money and investing it to make more money is also in everyone's best interest, but that is certainly not the case. So why is that?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#275

Post by bondarchuk »

koonsolo wrote: post #228
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #4

The game Paypal currently plays with Crypto is the closest thing to printing money I have ever seen: Their users can "buy and sell Bitcoin" and pay "no fees". How does Paypal make money? "From the spread". The difference between bid and ask. And who sets the spread? Drumroll ... Paypal! Since you cannot transfer your bitcoins out, when you sell your bitcoins, Paypal pays you whatever they like. So far, Paypal only of…

Quote from Elon Musk: "If PayPal had executed the plan that I wanted to execute on, I think it would probably be the most valuable company in the world".

..what was the plan?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#276

Post by tshaddox »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #25
vortico wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is only good for large transactions, but there are 1000000 cryptocurrencies that solve this problem such as BCH, USDT, and LTC. Use one of them.

Honestly, why? My credit card pays me 2% to use it. If there’s a problem with my transaction, I click some buttons and the card company reversed the charges. If I lose my card, I call them up and get another one overnight without losing all my money. Why would I give all of that up, pay exchange fees on both ends of a transaction, pay transaction fees (however small), and wait longer for my transactions to clear?

I don't think anyone would argue that you should stop using your credit card if it's working well for you and you're very happy with it. But of course, credit card companies are only solvent because on average they're not paying their users to use it. Miss one or two bills, or make one big purchase that you wouldn't have without the credit line, and you'll likely wipe out all the rewards you've "earned."

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#277

Post by [deleted] »

vbezhenar wrote: post #255
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

[deleted]

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#278

Post by edgyquant »

panarky wrote: post #249
systemvoltage wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing. By the time the transfer takes place, BTC exchange rate is now 7% off. How convenient is the transfer mechanism when the underlying is a speculative instrument? Until BTC exchange rate gets stable or gets pegged do the ground, it’s gonna float around in the air of extreme volatility and manipulation - pretty risky adventure to transfer large sums of money.

I prefer to own an asset with high volatility that gets more valuable over time than an asset with low volatility that gets less valuable over time.

We aren’t talking about assets and what you’ve just said is the reason we have controlled inflation. Currency isn’t supposed to incentivize hoarding it, quite the opposite in fact.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#279

Post by PragmaticPulp »

soheil wrote: post #96
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a hypothetically pure Bitcoin economy, that could work. But If we all switched to Bitcoin, the speculative upside would be exhausted and we’d be stuck with all of Bitcoin’s flaws and limitations. If you think $8 transaction fees are high now, how bad do you think it will be if every transaction was suddenly a Bitcoin transaction? Trick question, because Bitcoin has hard used block size limitations and it literally…

I don't understand why you're assuming we need a pure Bitcoin economy for there to be a network effect. If sufficient number of vendors accept Bitcoin that will be enough to create a network effect. Once you have a network effect with a size less than the size of the entire economy there will always be upside to own Bitcoin since that size can continue to grow.

I don't understand why you're assuming companies would willingly choose to use Bitcoin over banking alternatives.

Even companies who transact in Bitcoin generally won't be sending Bitcoin blockchain transactions on the blockchain with all of the associated fees, not to mention risks of keeping your company's money in a computer program where a rogue employee or hacker could simply embezzle the money instantly and irreversibly. They'd use banking services, which would handle the transactions for them off the blockchain (charging exchange fees as appropriate).

Not to mention: Using Bitcoin as a currency only sounds good in times when the price is going up. As soon as it starts becoming volatile again (it will) everyone remembers that maybe it's not a great idea to keep your company's funds tied up in one of the most volatile currencies of all time.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#280

Post by tenaciousDaniel »

vbezhenar wrote: post #255
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

It's sad that this aspect of the conversation so often gets replaced by everything else. This is (IMO) the most important point about digital currency - the promise of providing consumers in unstable economies the chance to convert to a more stable currency without government intrusion. We're still not there, but that should be the north star for crypto (again, in my opinion).
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