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TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

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Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#101

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

alistairSH wrote: post #32
qnk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, how is lobbying different from bribery? Lobbyists go to Washington, spend fortunes on taking lawmakers to fancy dinners and then get away with what they want. Maybe I don't understand the process and am oversimplifying it, but that's how I see it.

I'll flip the question around... How is lobbying different than random voter talking to their representative in person? It isn't really - a lobbyist is just exercising the free speech available to all individuals - they just happen to be doing it on behalf of a group of individuals. I'm purposefully ignoring the whole "corporations are people" aspect because that's a different discussion. But, what you seem to be arg…

How many private constituents can draft a 1000 page bill and get it passed without anyone reading it?

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#102

Post by seanp2k2 »

s_dev wrote: post #38
alistairSH wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll flip the question around... How is lobbying different than random voter talking to their representative in person? It isn't really - a lobbyist is just exercising the free speech available to all individuals - they just happen to be doing it on behalf of a group of individuals. I'm purposefully ignoring the whole "corporations are people" aspect because that's a different discussion. But, what you seem to be arg…

Money. Receiving money is the fundamental difference between lobbying and discussing policy with constituents.

Something I don’t see anyone else talking about: power. They don’t just come in and offer you a fat campaign contribution check on behalf of those they represent while strongly encouraging you to vote a certain way on that one bill that would really move the needle for them. They’re also offering executive / board positions in the companies they represent and related entities. Do your own research on EO 13770 and how that whole deal works, but it’s a lot more networking / relationship building than just a free lunch.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#103

Post by michaericalribo »

at_a_remove wrote: post #83

I am a chump who uses TurboTax every year. Having seen a few cases of the IRS going after someone I knew, I just pay the danegeld. Perhaps I do not need TurboTax, but I know that the laws at the state and federal level change every year and that I have no real ability to track any of this, but the penalties can be high for failure. I rarely understand tax jargon, in any case; I always feel like I am on the back foot…

Also (for me): it's easier that doing it by hand, and that's something I'm willing to pay money for.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#104

Post by mmcdermott »

u678u wrote: post #56

The reason we have complicated taxes in the US is because US politicians make it complicated. Trump actually did a good job to simplify by increasing the standard deduction and effectively removing AMT. Still its complicated because every politician wants their little tweak.

The tweaks have a purpose, though. Generally when we talk about taxes we are thinking about funding the core services that everyone (yes, everyone) agrees on. But the system is used to do two other semi-related things. One is to reward one's constituency with tax breaks and the other is to install direct or indirect penalties on behavior.

Taxes-as-funding can be simple. Those are revenue type conversations that also happen in every business on earth.

Taxes-as-behavior-modification is where things get truly convoluted because you have different groups tacking on their own dis/incentives (so the thing as a whole will lack cohesion) and the number of edge cases simply explodes. "We want A, but not B, but A->B so we'll add a new rule, but that..."

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#105

Post by dsaavy »

minikites wrote: post #4

Imagine if the USA was like most other developed nations where the government just sends you a receipt for you to verify and your taxes are otherwise taken care of for you. Instead we have Intuit lobbying to make it as difficult as possible, aided by Republicans who want the process to be as unpleasant as possible so people begin to loathe the very concept of taxation (This isn't hyperbole, Grover Norquist and his nu…

I mean, if you're referring to the Taxpayer First Act (which specifically had stories around Intuit benefitting from the Free File provision https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27091346/democrats-tu...) this was bipartisan and it's disingenuous to blame a single party.

If you look directly on the Congress website, there are 20 Democratic cosponsors and 8 Republican cosponsors in the House for the Taxpayer First Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3151...

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#106

Post by loufe »

peeters wrote: post #42
dragosmocrii wrote: post #33

For all Canadians reading this, try WealthSimple Tax (previously SimpleTax). It's pay what you want, and it's a solid product. Nonetheless, tax software should be provided for free by the tax organization (IRS, CRA, etc), it's so stupid to pay for doing your taxes, unless you really need an accountant...

Note that this one has fallen out of favour a bit because WealthSimple stopped supporting end-user encryption so that they could mine your data. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/indigenous-nations-and... It might still be the best of the available options, but the days where it is an obvious choice are over unfortunately.

Thanks for the update, I'll have to plunge back into research this year for a decent software. That's too bad, I was happy using their service and always donated.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#107

Post by Izkata »

minikites wrote: post #79
swebs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting this bizarre assumption that the average Republican commentator would side with Intuit here?

It's not a bizarre assumption, it's an easily verified fact: https://slate.com/business/2012/04/grover-norquist-and-h-r-b...

A single lobby is not "the average Republican"...

I was hoping for at least a poll of some sort.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#108

Post by ryaan_anthony »

Domenic_S wrote: post #80
rconti wrote: post #30

Funny anecdote, I've been using TurboTax installable for a decade or so (having given up on doing them completely by hand). Been considering hiring a professional because you always hear that they are worth their weight in gold. (Our tax situation is not particularly complicated though, typical Silicon Valley married homeowners). Well, last year, did everything in turbotax, said we were short by like 15k. Believable,…

The real wtf is: if the IRS already knew what you owed why did you have to go through the rigamarole to begin with?

not all taxable income is reported to the IRS

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#109

Post by wernercd »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #98
DavidPeiffer wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it more approachable to use the question/answer format compared to reading all of the instructions on detail, determining if that particular section applies to me, and wondering if I found every form to cover every situation from the last year. An example is figuring out whether I would owe taxes on the gain from the sale of a primary residence I owned for less than 2 years. Figuring that out manually took som…

If your tax situation doesn't change from year to year you don't need to scour the instructions. Just work through the forms using last year's return as a guide.

Except things change from year to year so even if YOU don't change, the underlying tax laws move over time.

Re: TurboTax Tricked You into Paying to File Your Taxes (2019)

#110

Post by ska »

nineplay wrote: post #74
grayhatter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think UBI is a good idea, some bad. It's probably fair to say it's both. Simple, easy, and free tax submission is pretty universally believed to be a good thing. Except from lobbyists... that's what I meant to convey. There was also a subtle comment about Us vs Them politically being harmful, where Us vs Them (lobbyists) is likely helpful.

There is a counter-argument, though I'll leave it's plausibility up to the reader. There are a lot of deductions a taxpayer can use that the IRS doesn't know about. Charity donations are probably the most common, but also business expenses and medical expenses. Teachers who spend their own money to buy class supplies could and should be able to submit those receipts and get a deduction. That can't be easily simplifie…

I think they meant "simple" as in the filing process, not the tax code. Agree tax codes get complicated for good as well as bad reasons. It could clearly be simplified, but only so much.

A turbo-tax like interface that covered say, 80% of the working public perfectly well and was free or really cheap is certainly in the realm of possibility.

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