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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#241

Post by agumonkey »

dragonwriter wrote: post #200
agumonkey wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that traditional cc system are slower than the time user waits for confirmation. Isn't it buffer based like disk io ? the bank has a buffer to accept any card that is legit (for small transactions) and the rare time a problem occurs they deal with it on the side ?

> I have a feeling that traditional cc system are slower than the time user waits for confirmation. Raising this in response to Bitcoin’s limited throughput is a nonsequitur, as this is latency, not throughout. Yes, the time between initiating and settling a credit card transaction is nontrivial, but that doesn't effect the number of transactions the system can process per second. If the credit card system didn't hav…

note that I don't promote bitcoin .. i just want to avoid people judging the current credit card system from afar.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#242

Post by rokhayakebe »

the_local_host wrote: post #133
PretzelPirate wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control - not to keep the government and big banks away from it. The current world of cryptocurrency gives you a choice of trusting big banks or not, and having the same economic opportunities regardless of the level of trust you are comfortable with.

> The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control I've never understood this. With an immutable ledger of all transactions, governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously (or pseudonymously), watch the blockchain, and investigate any un-attributed transactions. It would actually enhance governments' surveillance capabilities against anyone not willing to run t…

governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously

Making something illegal does not give a government control over it. Many websites/apps are illegal in many countries. Yet governments have near zero control over their citizens using those products. VPN.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#243

Post by the_local_host »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #149
the_local_host wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control I've never understood this. With an immutable ledger of all transactions, governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously (or pseudonymously), watch the blockchain, and investigate any un-attributed transactions. It would actually enhance governments' surveillance capabilities against anyone not willing to run t…

1. It would be prohibitively expensive for the government to track down every blockchain transaction IRL to find the identity behind the wallet (if even possible). This cost rises with adoption. 2. Different crypto currencies have different roles. If you want to avoid traceability altogether, use zCash.

1) Why would it be prohibitively expensive? In the face of severe enough penalties, most people would simply report their transactions as required, and report who they transacted with.

The number of transactions that needed to be investigated would be a small percentage of the total, and possibly traceable through means other than cracking keys.

2) Regardless of whatever zCash is, my point is that Bitcoin's immutable and complete ledger lends itself to complete surveillance. The math may be uncrackable, but the users are not, and privacy would go out the window if they're forced to transact with registered IDs.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#244

Post by Hippocrates »

liquidify wrote: post #27
sschueller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is outright scam in my view. They never have to hold bitcoin. They may as well sell paypal coin. Robinhood and Revolut do the same thing. If you can't transfer out your bitcoin, you don't have any bitcoin.

They couldn't do that. If they didn't actually have any crypto, in the event of a large scale increase in price combined with a large scale cash out, Paypal would have to eat the difference from buy to sell price. They would lose their shirt. At minimum, Paypal is buying some percentage of the crypto sales in actual crypto to act as a hedge. However, it is more likely they are closer to 1 to 1 backing since they prob…

I assume that they don’t hold the bitcoin but contract out the holding of the coins (or keys) to some 3rd party who specializes. They still make money on the spread and the buy/sell price gouge may be even larger to cover fees of whoever actually holds the crypto. Holdings may not be 1:1 still but it should be some safe amount.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#245

Post by ardy42 »

centimeter wrote: post #230
ardy42 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree - I trust much more strongly that Bitcoin will not be mismanaged than the USD, because bitcoin is governed by very simple and utile rules that are practically impossible to change, whereas the USD can be and has been inflated substantially. Following fixed, unchanging rules is kind of the opposite of being managed, let alone well-managed. > ...especially as Bitcoin comes to be the reserve asset of a larg…

For a monetary asset, being “managed” is a liability.

> For a monetary asset, being “managed” is a liability.

I'm not so sure of that. For instance: Bitcoin isn't money, but something that people hoard and speculate on. If it was more actively managed, its parameters could perhaps have been tweaked until it started actually acting more like money.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#246

Post by ggreer »

mdtusz wrote: post #214
fouldiplomacy wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency" -- this is often the case with any news, not just "pump and dump" schemes. Take the Chinese CNY. The CCP have been undervaluing it for years for the purpose of attracting business. the USD is very much subject to social media and traditional news manipulation. When the US decides it wants a stimulus package or other types of debt, it drives down the dollar's valu…

USD price does fluctuate and inflate over time yes, but the difference is that this is essentially an invisible effect on day to day life for anyone that is not doing forex trading. The reason the US dollar is "stable" is partially due to the fact that it is backed by the US government. It is a requirement that businesses operating in the US accept payment in US dollars. Until somewhere mandates that bitcoin _must_ b…

> It is a requirement that businesses operating in the US accept payment in US dollars.

People and businesses in the US have to pay the US government in US dollars, but there's no law requiring that a business accept any particular currency.[1][2]

That said, if you do try to make your own currency, the feds will find some way to shut you down.[3]

1. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

2. https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages...

3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2017/04/18/what-is-...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#247

Post by [deleted] »

arcticbull wrote: post #229
danhak wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Housing is a function of city council zoning policy... This is the laughably reductionist take that predictably appears on HN when folks think the dynamics of San Francisco apply everywhere. Housing costs have nothing to do with the Fed? Really? You don’t believe record low mortgage rates are driving demand at all? Nah, it must be city council zoning policy that is sending home prices soaring all over the country—-…

I'm sorry you're just wrong about that though. On average, the price per square foot of housing in the US is exactly the same now as it was in the 1970s, on an inflation adjusted basis. [1] In major metros, that number is higher, because of city policy, but on average, the number is flat. That means on an inflation adjusted basis in rural areas houses are cheaper per square foot. Once you take into account that inter…

[deleted]

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#248

Post by nikolay »

I am not sure who in their right mind will buy BTC at $48K a piece! There's nothing major that's has happened, yet, the bubble has inflated from $6K to $47K only because it's now harder to steal electricity in China and the rest of the world to mine bitcoins. Every week in Bulgaria we hear for a new electricity thieves who got caught and have stolen electricity for millions - often in the middle of nowhere like in small villages, farms, etc. Didn't China started to crackdown on miners last summer [0]? And, yes, all marketplaces are manipulated by the same miner cartels. I am not sure how China has allow this so far - especially when many used Bitcoin as a vehicle to export capital. So far, Bitcoin is wasting as much electricity as Argentina, but if this bubble keeps inflated so that the Chinese miners can stay in business, where are we going to end up soon?

[0]: https://news.bitcoin.com/chinese-government-crackdowns-and-c...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#249

Post by panarky »

systemvoltage wrote: post #190
krisdol wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure: I own about $11 worth of bitcoin if I round up a bit, so this might be biased. The most convincing "point" of bitcoin I've heard is to accomodate transfer of large sums of money across borders, quickly, with minimal transaction costs and oversight. Everyone here can afford the fee to transact 8 billion dollars worth of bitcoin. And settlement happens in seconds to a couple minutes. That's appealing t…

That’s the thing. By the time the transfer takes place, BTC exchange rate is now 7% off. How convenient is the transfer mechanism when the underlying is a speculative instrument? Until BTC exchange rate gets stable or gets pegged do the ground, it’s gonna float around in the air of extreme volatility and manipulation - pretty risky adventure to transfer large sums of money.

I prefer to own an asset with high volatility that gets more valuable over time than an asset with low volatility that gets less valuable over time.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#250

Post by adventured »

panarky wrote: post #249
systemvoltage wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing. By the time the transfer takes place, BTC exchange rate is now 7% off. How convenient is the transfer mechanism when the underlying is a speculative instrument? Until BTC exchange rate gets stable or gets pegged do the ground, it’s gonna float around in the air of extreme volatility and manipulation - pretty risky adventure to transfer large sums of money.

I prefer to own an asset with high volatility that gets more valuable over time than an asset with low volatility that gets less valuable over time.

You're talking about something entirely different from what the parent comment is. What you're talking about is a long-term investment.
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