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Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

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Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#51
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also excellent built-in documentation, complete with samples and F1 context help. I pretty much learned FoxPro from scratch entirely from it.

how did we go from excellent software, with excellent documentation, that made regular people implement solutions, to the current situation?

Things got complicated.

But there was a ton of bad software back then, it is just that few remember it.

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also excellent built-in documentation, complete with samples and F1 context help. I pretty much learned FoxPro from scratch entirely from it.

how did we go from excellent software, with excellent documentation, that made regular people implement solutions, to the current situation?

There's still some excellent documentation out there. But basically what happened is the immediate response cycle of the Internet.

You don't know what to do? Well, google it, look up Stack Overflow, open an issue or write the company/developers. You just couldn't do that when the applications were mostly offline and you didn't exactly have a full set of international call agents well versed in the software.

I also believe that more companies had tech writers, which is one of the worst fatalities that the "full stack" mindset inflicted on us. Of course, the open source part doesn't really have the option here.

And once you have this, there's a certain peer pressure. IBM delivers a whole shelf of docs for one product? Welp, need to do that, too.

There's also a definite movement towards video material, although that's not a total excuse. As others in this thread pointed out, dBase had video tutorials too (If I ever make it big enough with a "boxed" product, I'll hire some guy with werewolf hair or a woman named Cheryl to do that with a VHS aesthethic). Videos and reference documentation doesn't go together.

I've also encountered more "code clearly and you don't need docs" than previously in recent years, maybe Uncle Bob or some other "thought leader" is preaching that again.

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#53
post #34

The whole xBase universe is quite fascinating. It might not have been as revolutionary as spreadsheets, but having databases on your homecomputer/PC covers a lot of use cases for regular people and small businesses. Heck, a lot of what we make way too much money with is basically "just" polishing that. (Or trying to sell you pills while you use that, but let's not digress) And dBase and its variants/rivals had that p…

> The whole xBase/Clipper-verse almost seems like a unique dead end, in an industry that keeps pretty much every other technology afloat. Interestingly Claris's FileMaker is still in business: https://www.claris.com/filemaker/pro/ And of course many editions of MS Office include Microsoft Access, which undoubtedly had a role to play in killing dBase, Borland’s Paradox, and Lotus’s Approach. Access’s not quite as perv…

Are these things really better than just opening a sqlite3 database with python?

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#54
post #34

The whole xBase universe is quite fascinating. It might not have been as revolutionary as spreadsheets, but having databases on your homecomputer/PC covers a lot of use cases for regular people and small businesses. Heck, a lot of what we make way too much money with is basically "just" polishing that. (Or trying to sell you pills while you use that, but let's not digress) And dBase and its variants/rivals had that p…

> The whole xBase/Clipper-verse almost seems like a unique dead end, in an industry that keeps pretty much every other technology afloat. Interestingly Claris's FileMaker is still in business: https://www.claris.com/filemaker/pro/ And of course many editions of MS Office include Microsoft Access, which undoubtedly had a role to play in killing dBase, Borland’s Paradox, and Lotus’s Approach. Access’s not quite as perv…

FileMaker's quiet, sustained success over the years makes you wonder why Microsoft didn't spin off FoxPro in the same way that Apple spun off Claris. Perhaps they were worried it would be too competitive with their own core products?

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#55
In the late 80s my side-project college consulting company was almost 100% FoxPro. I still have the 5 1/4" floppies laying about. They also had a version that ran on the Mac so I ended up getting my first "real" job writing FoxPro sales management apps for the original Apple stores. Also they gave me a sweet Mac II to code on :)

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole xBase/Clipper-verse almost seems like a unique dead end, in an industry that keeps pretty much every other technology afloat. Interestingly Claris's FileMaker is still in business: https://www.claris.com/filemaker/pro/ And of course many editions of MS Office include Microsoft Access, which undoubtedly had a role to play in killing dBase, Borland’s Paradox, and Lotus’s Approach. Access’s not quite as perv…

Are these things really better than just opening a sqlite3 database with python?

In FoxPro, heck even in Access you can easily add a GUI frontend to your DB without writing any or much code. With python... Good luck.

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#59
post #35

I think there's still some space for something like fox pro and even access nowadays. Sometimes you just need to solve a problem and that doesn't need to be fancy, specially on the back office.

I feel the huge discriminator here is the need of paying up upfront for the license, compared to a free tool/library, regardless whether or not the free stuff is up to the task

Re: Microsoft's FoxPro 2.5 Is Fast and Easy to Use (1993)

#60
Software definitely lost something when we gained the ability to ship it as separate components over the internet. If you "just" configure components A, B, C, and D, you too can have the equivalent of what FoxPro had in 1993! It may not be The Unix Way(TM), but having an all-in-one solution is very appealing even today.
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