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The Art of Negativity

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Re: The Art of Negativity

#31

Post by comboy »

paulpauper wrote: post #18

I have found that the people who keep pushing optimism are those who are already successful. It is not that being optimistic leads to success but that successful people are more inclined to feel optimistic.

There were many studies that have found the opposite of what you have found: https://escholarship.org/content/qt1k08m32k/qt1k08m32k.pdf

Re: The Art of Negativity

#32

Post by dstroot »

username90 wrote: post #26
getlawgdon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I often say pessimism/optimism are astrology. Realism is astronomy.

Pessimism/optimism are mostly to signal social support for things. If you act with irrational optimism towards someone's ideas you are showing that you support the person. Similarly if you don't act with irrational optimism many will take it as evidence that you don't support them, which can cause them to become hostile against you. This means that acting with irrational optimism is often the rational choice when you…

The social aspect is huge in some organizations and I am glad you described it so well. I continue to see terrible ideas supported by rational people because of social position or social signaling. If they stand to gain from expressing support, yet would suffer no material penalty if the idea fails then why not support the person/idea? On the other hand it makes me feel like I am the crazy one - as in “am I the only one who sees how dumb this is?” “Should I speak up?” In many cases the rational answer is no. Better to support it in the slim chance it succeeds, and ignore or distance yourself if/when it fails. The organization specifically rejects/weeds out what it calls “Eeyores” - Winnie the Pooh reference.

Re: The Art of Negativity

#34

Post by prionassembly »

nathell wrote: post #30

So happy to see Przekrój on HN! Started in 1945, it's to the Polish culture what New Yorker is to the American one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przekr%C3%B3j

I've become a fan of what little one gets from Polish culture from Netflix shows such as "1983" and "Rojst". (I was aware of Chopin, Kieslowski and even Gorecki, but somehow everything until 1983 registed as "European" and not specifically Polish to me). I've even been doing Duolingo exercises almost nightly for over a year now. It's great to find out about this!

Re: The Art of Negativity

#35

Post by kamaal »

paulpauper wrote: post #18

I have found that the people who keep pushing optimism are those who are already successful. It is not that being optimistic leads to success but that successful people are more inclined to feel optimistic.

People's perspectives are shaped by the outcomes of their actions.

I can imagine if all you have is positive feed back loop, you will see everything will just keep improving endlessly.

Which is why these perspectives are what they are perspectives. They are not real world models you should live your life by.

In real life you must deal with the situations as they are.

Re: The Art of Negativity

#36

Post by hinkley »

paulpauper wrote: post #18

I have found that the people who keep pushing optimism are those who are already successful. It is not that being optimistic leads to success but that successful people are more inclined to feel optimistic.

I know a couple of optimists who seem very interested in the notion that all the work they’ve done so far has created a good outcome instead of one where people have to work very hard to do basic things.

“Everything is awesome,” in this context, is alienating, or if you prefer, gaslighting.

And self damaging. Nobody wants to talk to them about real problems because there is no safe space for candor. So people talk to the pessimists, creating a rift. “I haven’t heard anything about this,” has been uttered more than a couple times. No shit Sherlock. Who would talk to you about problems like this?

Re: The Art of Negativity

#37

Post by stared »

I like the notion of "Optimistic Nihilism", as explained by Kurzgesagt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14

For me, it is about stoic/Zen acceptance of things we cannot change.

Contrast it with "American optimism", which is for me close to gaslighting, or at best - a "flight" reaction from suffering.

Re: The Art of Negativity

#38

Post by rosadoft »

paulpauper wrote: post #18

I have found that the people who keep pushing optimism are those who are already successful. It is not that being optimistic leads to success but that successful people are more inclined to feel optimistic.

There is certainly a correlation between the two. But I think our general sense of optimism towards life is set at a very early age. Take Elon Musk who, as a kid, was always described as an optimist despite his unsuccessful childhood.

Re: The Art of Negativity

#39

Post by cmiller1 »

The author's name, Enis Yucekoralp, reads like a villain in a Cam Jensen book where the name is actually an anagram for something:

securely a pinko

ocular pinkeyes

sneakily recoup

epicurean yolks

cakey repulsion

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