Blunt and necessary review of programming language books. • Hacker News Board

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#71

Post by pnathan » Wed, Jun 01, 2011, 11:35 PM UTC

Rickasaurus wrote: post #48

I've been begging publishers to let me have a go at a ~100 page F# tutorial book, but they've told me again and again that books without a wide enough profile on the shelf just won't sell. It's sad really. I hope ePublishing fixes this.

If you can put together a $30 F# book at 100 pages, I would consider buying it.

There are a number of self-publishing options out there, I believe. Let Over Lambda is a Lulu print, I believe.

I am sure that you could find someone to serve as editor for the book as well.

(there's a consulting idea: book editor! )

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#72

Post by andrewcooke » Wed, Jun 01, 2011, 11:35 PM UTC

msie wrote: post #44

GeneralMaximus wrote: post #37

I'd been meaning to pick up a new language, and a few weeks ago I pared down my list of choices to two languages: Scala and Go. Then I went looking for "official" tutorials/references. For Scala I found Scala by Example , a 145 page PDF that comes with the Scala docs. For Go, I found the Go tutorial -- a very short tutorial with a bunch of examples. I picked Go because, seriously, I don't have time to read 145 pages…

Every time I try to learn Scala I get the feeling that it's too big.

It struck me the other day that I would love a "Scala: The Good Parts". Wouldn't it be great if there was a small, powerful kernel in there, somewhere, and someone explained it...

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#73

Post by jleader » Wed, Jun 01, 2011, 11:36 PM UTC

masterzora wrote: post #28

qntm wrote: post #8

Programming Perl is definitely guilty of this.

Is it supposed to be a tutorial book? I always thought that it was trying (and epically succeeding) to be a massive reference. I know O'Reilly has the llama and alpacas that are intended to be the actual tutorials, though I can't really speak for their quality (I actually did learn Perl via Camel Book + external projects).

I'd say it's somewhere in between; it starts with a single-chapter overview that shows enough Perl that you can start writing programs, and there's definitely a progression through the chapters, but it's also got a pretty thorough coverage of the whole language (at the time of writing).

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#74

Post by andrewcooke » Wed, Jun 01, 2011, 11:42 PM UTC

notsosmart wrote: post #10

So aside from K&R, what are some of the best small books?

Effective Java is the best book for general Java that I know - http://www.amazon.com/Effective-Java-Programming-Language-Gu... It's not a tutorial, but a collection of recommendations that could take you from just-learnt to competent.

Very slim, and very good - Javascript: The Good Parts http://www.amazon.com/JavaScript-Good-Parts-Douglas-Crockfor...

For a C reference, Harbison & Steele is excellent - http://www.amazon.com/Reference-Manual-Samuel-P-Harbison/dp/...

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#75

Post by fogus » Wed, Jun 01, 2011, 11:51 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #65

fogus wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bigger books sell better. Is this true? I was always under the impression that bigness was used to justify a higher price point.

Its absolutely true. The exact same effect occurs in restaurants and floral arrangements. There is a fixed cost, we'll call it X, to get the {book/meal/arrangement) made, the marginal cost of {paper/food/flowers) is small relative to the fixed cost and yet is the dominant factor in perceived value. Understanding this you can use it to your advantage. You can boost the percieved value of a book or meal or floral arran…

Wow, great answer. I would love to read more about the psychology of this. Does it differ across cultures?

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#76

Post by timtadh » Thu, Jun 02, 2011, 12:04 AM UTC

GeneralMaximus wrote: post #37

I'd been meaning to pick up a new language, and a few weeks ago I pared down my list of choices to two languages: Scala and Go. Then I went looking for "official" tutorials/references. For Scala I found Scala by Example , a 145 page PDF that comes with the Scala docs. For Go, I found the Go tutorial -- a very short tutorial with a bunch of examples. I picked Go because, seriously, I don't have time to read 145 pages…

+1 to Go. I am not aware of any books on it. But between the spec, Effective Go, and the tutorial you can learn the entire language in a matter of days if you have serious project you want to work on.

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#77

Post by m0nastic » Thu, Jun 02, 2011, 12:05 AM UTC

spacemanaki wrote: post #61

m0nastic wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the second edition of How To Design Programs drops the imperative programming[1] and is available online[2]. I can't comment about the pandering though. [1] "This edition of the book drops the design of imperative programs. The old chapters remain available on-line" [2] http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/Draft/index.html

Is that just the first few chapters of the 2nd ed? http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/Draft/i1-2.html Many chapters after that one are just blank.

Yeah, I'm not sure. That's the "unstable" version, and it looks like some of the chapter's are missing (everything after part 6).

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#78

Post by InclinedPlane » Thu, Jun 02, 2011, 12:44 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #55

InclinedPlane wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not worth the trouble to go through a publisher anymore. You're not going to make any money on a tech book no matter how popular it is. The smart move in the modern age is to work on the book in the open with a blog and then self publish an ebook. If you like you can even sell it or ask for donations.

I'm starting to think that the ransom model is the wave of the future for self-publishing. If it can work for small-time written works publicized online like role-playing games, what about other kinds of books: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_pledge_system Think of it- if publishers won't agree, bypass them and drum up support by getting enough pledgers to prove them wrong. Then self-publish and have the last…

The combination of kickstarter-like funding models complemented by transparent incremental development models (i.e. blog as you go to increase interest, release the finished product later, or construct a finished product from organic blog posts) certainly lowers the threshold substantially. More so, it increases the strength of monetary feedback to a degree that it becomes much more financially viable for writers to make a living off their works, especially for technical non-fiction. I'm very excited to see the tranformation of the writing profession that is upon us.

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#79

Post by drblast » Thu, Jun 02, 2011, 1:13 AM UTC

notsosmart wrote: post #10

So aside from K&R, what are some of the best small books?

I always loved The Perl Cookbook. It's got some in-depth discussion in there about language features, but most of the time what I want from a language book is a bunch of (complete) examples to help me learn the syntax, and probably to show me what the language's benefit is.

Re: Blunt and necessary review of programming language books.

#80

Post by drblast » Thu, Jun 02, 2011, 1:17 AM UTC

It might be better now than since I last looked, but the one language I haven't found a good tutorial for is Haskell.

All the ones I've seen either dumb things down way too much with cartoons and such until they're difficult to slog through and pick out the relevant info, or they assume the reader either already has a working knowledge of Haskell syntax or a working knowledge of group theory.