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Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

themouseless.dev

41–50 of 221 posts

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#41
post #32
post #14

All I can say is that the medieval plague was spread by rodents. We are back in plague conditions. If ever there was a time to avoid the mouse, this is it!

One of the pleasures of the ratpoison window manager is that the mouse is actually referred to as the "rat" in documentation http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/doc/Other-Commands.html#Othe...

ah, ratpoison. I passed many a fair hour doing network-appliance dev with ratpoison + screen + vi (not even vim) back in the day.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#42

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

A mouse is an interface best suited for continuous-shaped requirement, e.g. aiming a pointer in games, drawing, and other inherently 2-dimensional arbitrary precision input modalities. Textual interfaces (e.g. code), reading, navigating filesystems, etc. is inherently discrete (folders have files, files have words, words have letters). For discrete applications such as these, I (and many others) prefer mouseless mode…

> Textual interfaces ... inherently discrete

That continues vs discrete actually makes a lot of sense. That analogy helps me put a finger on things I wasn't to articulate before.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#43
Surprised to see no mention of Acme here. As much as I love keyboard-based tools, I must begrudgingly admit that from a scientific standpoint it is much quicker to use a pointing device because there is no recall associated with the action, you intuitively drive the device. However that said, there is appallingly little effort to actually utilise this power. Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying that I don't think mouseless development should be celebrated. Good on him for figuring it out, but did we really need to figure that one out?

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#44
post #43

Surprised to see no mention of Acme here. As much as I love keyboard-based tools, I must begrudgingly admit that from a scientific standpoint it is much quicker to use a pointing device because there is no recall associated with the action, you intuitively drive the device. However that said, there is appallingly little effort to actually utilise this power. Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying that I don't thi…

Driving a mouse is far from effortless. Or intuitive, if seeing my family try and use them is any indication.

A wacom screen is intuitive, but surprisingly hard to use.

Then there are all of the rsi implications of a mouse. I use a roller mouse that I love, but older members of my family just can't figure that out.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#45
post #40

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

Navigating code using Vim keyboard commands (in Vim itself or another editor with a Vim plugin, like VS Code) is actually efficient and comfy once you become fluent with it. I also use a Vim Firefox extension to minimize my mouse use browsing the internet. (That said, creating a fully mouseless Arch Linux desktop environment is way more hardcore than anything I want to do, especially considering the less-than-stellar…

> I also use a Vim Firefox extension to minimize my mouse use browsing the internet.

Which one? Vimium-FF? How well does it compare to Vimium in Chromium?

I've been wanting to switch from Chromium to Firefox but can't live without Vimium. If it works well, I'll make the switch.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#46
post #12

Definitely going to check this out! I got fascinated with mouseless interaction several years ago, even to the point that I registered tyrannyofthemouse.com: http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2012/02/ending-tyranny-of-... Unfortunately, I've had to give up on it for web browsing. Too many sites break the ability of my extensions to pick up clickable elements. I can probably find a long-term workaround, but I'll have…

In Firefox, by default, you can search for text of an element using forward slash. Then you hit escape and hit enter to activate it, or tab to navigate past it. That alone made 90% of websites practically mouseless for me

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#48
post #43

Surprised to see no mention of Acme here. As much as I love keyboard-based tools, I must begrudgingly admit that from a scientific standpoint it is much quicker to use a pointing device because there is no recall associated with the action, you intuitively drive the device. However that said, there is appallingly little effort to actually utilise this power. Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying that I don't thi…

I don’t understand this at all. No matter what happens, my hands are mostly on the keyboard. Moving to the mouse is wasteful, and just the act of aiming for it involves more recall than remembering any common key binding. Plus the mouse can only point at or navigate to things on or adjacent to the screen. If I want to navigate to a symbol not on screen or run an arbitrary command then resume typing, I don’t see how the mouse helps me go faster. What workflow are you picturing here that a scientific standpoint backs up?

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#50
post #6

For what it's worth, I think there is a lot of space between what you use and what might work for other people. It's not that there is anything wrong with Arch. Rather Ubuntu is probably easier for many people. The general idea here is Linux. Similarly, there are several tiling window managers. A neutral description of the options and links to resources might have broader appeal. Text editors are another place where…

If I simplify a bit, I see two different approaches: 1. You write something broad as you say. You present many options to the reader. The book is not practical anymore, because you don't speak about something in particular but some general ideas. As a result, the readers can't really practice with a concrete project, and they might end up lost in an ocean of links. If I wanted to do that, I would have created another…

This answer convinced me to buy the book, books like (2) tend to be my favorites. Looking forward to it!
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