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Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

themouseless.dev

31–40 of 221 posts

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference for me was realizing that Shift-V % will typically highlight precisely what I want - though that's a bad example, visual mode is rare for me. More frequently it's something like `dap`, which works with a level of precision across lines that aren't necessarily all on screen. If I click and drag, I'm liable to select one extra or one less line, e.g.

Is this better than using the keyboard with arrow keys and ctrl/alt/shift?

Well, vi already allows considerably more than 4×4 different references to text objects relative to the cursor, and vim adds some others on top of those.

I guess if you include chords of modifier keys, you could have 2⁴×4 possibilities, which would be extremely competitive with vim in this regard, although I haven't encountered an editing environment that did that. (That's not to say that it couldn't exist.)

I consider myself a proficient but unsophisticated vi user, and I seem to have at least 19 cursor movements that can be combined with selection or deletion in my muscle memory, in the sense that I would regularly use them without being consciously aware of how I chose one movement command rather than another. And that's not counting the ability to prefix them with repetition counts, which is usually a more conscious activity for me. I know that vim provides another dozen or more that I've never learned well, but it seems like other people have.

It does take time to internalize these, which is one reason we see so many people making "learn vim" games and tutorials. And I could imagine that they might not be the exact selection of movements that someone would find optimal, let alone easy to remember or articulate.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#32
post #14

All I can say is that the medieval plague was spread by rodents. We are back in plague conditions. If ever there was a time to avoid the mouse, this is it!

One of the pleasures of the ratpoison window manager is that the mouse is actually referred to as the "rat" in documentation http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/doc/Other-Commands.html#Othe...

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#33

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

> Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things?

Browsing code is easy to do with a keyboard - not sure I see how a mouse would improve things.

Browsing web: Firefox has since forever let you go to and open a link by typing a few characters in the link. I'll grant I don't always do it this way, but it is quite fast - unless the link is an image or something.

Finally, if you're one of those people who've had ergonomic pains, then avoiding the mouse can really help (depending on what the pain is).

But yeah, obsessing over not using a mouse is taking it a bit far.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#34

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

A mouse is an interface best suited for continuous-shaped requirement, e.g. aiming a pointer in games, drawing, and other inherently 2-dimensional arbitrary precision input modalities.

Textual interfaces (e.g. code), reading, navigating filesystems, etc. is inherently discrete (folders have files, files have words, words have letters). For discrete applications such as these, I (and many others) prefer mouseless modes of interaction. A mouse can point at many different precise points for a given character in a word, but it's still the same logical place.

(Yes, I'm aware that pixels are finite and thus the continuous analogy is "technically incorrect". Its validity stands.)

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#36

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

You can make keyboard more efficient than mouse for everything, even browsing code and googling. Tiling window manager + vim or emacs editor + vim or similar keybinds for browser.

It takes some upfront work to get those keybinds into muscle memory, but once you're over that hump a mouse feels cumbersome and clumsy by comparison.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#37

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

If you're gluing existing APIs together it may be true, I'm writing stuff from scratch for the most part and don't open a browser.

That said I control my browser with the keyboard and navigate my code from the command line. I suspect have similar workflow / opinions as op.

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#39
Am I a bad person for buying the book immediately after reading the title? I guessed the arch/i3 setup from reading "mouseless", and after watching the youtube video from the comments I dislike the _specific_ environment but enjoy the fundamentals that led to the environment being built because they remind me of my own journey.

I don't think I'll ever read this book, but I want other people to read it. Actually scratch that, the entire world needs to know this is an _option_. This needs to be required reading in K-12 education systems.

EDIT: Is there a paperback copy available?

Re: Show HN: I wrote an entire book to build a mouseless dev environment

#40

I never got the hate of mouse in the dev community. Isn’t most of work browsing code and Googling things? Making a mouse a way to navigate way more efficient than a keyboard? It seems retrograde.

Navigating code using Vim keyboard commands (in Vim itself or another editor with a Vim plugin, like VS Code) is actually efficient and comfy once you become fluent with it. I also use a Vim Firefox extension to minimize my mouse use browsing the internet.

(That said, creating a fully mouseless Arch Linux desktop environment is way more hardcore than anything I want to do, especially considering the less-than-stellar stability of desktop Linux.)

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