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Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

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Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#61

Someone's really serious about pushing the "bitcoin is bad" narrative. Too many articles like that recently. Nevertheless, upvoting because HN should see this.

Maybe it's, you know, people caring about a livable planet. The "Big survival of humanity" lobby.

Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#62
I think BTC mining provides a needed incentive to invest renewable power. You have a customer that needs infinite electricity and they’re okay if supply is not 100% available as long as the price is low.

In the future I hope we use this supply for something else but in the short term it solves the issue of no one wanting to invest in and improve renewables.

Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#63

I'm a Bitcoin skeptic, but mentioning "fundamental value" when talking about currency seems incongruous. The "fundamental value" of bitcoin is whatever people think it's worth. Just like USD.

I agree with your example.

I think the problem, though, is with the concept of value itself.

To my knowledge, the value of something is necessarily a personal assessment that individuals 1) make for themselves and 2) by a process that they do not and can not fully comprehend.

Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#64
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a reasonable stance if Bitcoin were just another activity, but it’s unique in its energy profile. What other technology is designed so that energy efficiency improvements are absorbed and nullified (through the difficulty adjustment mechanism)?

No design needed. If the price of gold doubles, twice as much resources can be invested to dig up a ton of gold.

That applies to bitcoin too, but gold doesn't also become twice as hard to dig up just because mining equipment became twice as efficient.

Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#66
post #55
post #2

I wonder if Bitcoin could ever migrate to Ethereum technology/proof of stake? It seems like a good idea but the Bitcoin community seems very resistant to change (see block size debate).

Ethereum hasn't even migrated to "Ethereum technology". They have been claiming for years that they are planning to move from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake. Maybe someday they will. My take on this: I remain unconvinced that any form of Proof of Stake can give the same security properties we easily get from Proof of Work. I won't say never, but getting Bitcoin to move would take a very convincing argument about the…

Eth2 with PoS is already running with Phase 0 on mainnnet though.

https://beaconcha.in/

The merge from Eth1 to Eth2 is expected to happen this year or after. There shouldn’t be any significant delays now because Phase 0 was the biggest hurdle with research and technical dependencies that didn’t exist yet, like BLS signatures.

There’s no way Bitcoin will move to PoS without another contentious fork.

Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#67
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watt-hour of hydro or solar that goes to mining Bitcoin could have been used to reduce demand for power generated from fossil fuels. No, that power would have gone to reducing the price of power and people would have found new uses for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

I love the Jevons paradox but it has limits. Per capita energy consumption in the US peaked in 1979 and has dropped 14% in the last 20 years. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T...

In the context of Jevons, wouldn’t that explain why we have bitcoin?

Re: Bitcoin's fundamental value is negative given its environmental impact

#69

Video gaming has more environmental impact than bitcoin. So do porn sites. Bitcoin just seems like an easy target because people are more directly profiting off of it.

Source? All these whatabout takes I've seen compare the sum total of some hugely popular activity to the relatively small userbase of Bitcoin. I'm highly skeptical Bitcoin would compare favorably on a per-user basis.
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