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Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

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Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#41

Post by simonh »

_qulr wrote: post #31
simonh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple bashing is in the title and in the text, calling this a "def-facto ban" by Apple. No it's not, it's giving the option to the users. The fact that users generally abhor and detest this sort of tracking and want nothing to do with it is hardly Apple's fault.

If, as you say, the preference of users is obvious and predictable, and Apple gives an option to users with a completely predictable outcome that will prevent analytics SDKs from being viable, then I think it's fair to say that this is a de facto ban. Whether that's good or bad is a subject for separate debate. But the main question of the article is whether developers can still use these SDKs, and the author specula…

"But the main question of the article is whether developers can still use these SDKs, and the author speculates that it will no longer be possible for developers to use them."

OMG. I can't believe you just wrote that, you're just proving my case for me.

Yes, developers will be able to use whatever SDKs they like, Apple won't lift a finger to stop them, in fact it's extremely simple for developers to use those SDKs. Not impossible at all. All they will have to do is indicate third party tracking in the App description and present an opt-in dialog.

But apparently, this option of letting users decide appears to be literally inconceivable. Under the new rules "...it will no longer be possible to use them". No rhetorical device is too contrived to direct the responsibility to Apple rather than the people actually choosing not to enable tracking - users.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#42

Post by nulbyte »

kruuuder wrote: post #13
Reason077 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There shouldn't be a problem if you disable the collection of IDFA" Exactly. I hope this is true as this is exactly what I'm planning to do.

Apple says "you’ll need to receive the user’s permission through the AppTrackingTransparency framework to track them or access their device’s advertising identifier". So if the SDK uses any information at all (e.g. the IP address) to track the user, you need the user's permission. Do you think Google will do some kind of tracking with the user's IP address? I'd bet on "Yes".

Apple defines tracking to mean something specific:

> Tracking refers to the act of linking user or device data collected from your app with user or device data collected from other companies’ apps, websites, or offline properties for targeted advertising or advertising measurement purposes.

How will Apple enforce this? You can, for example, turn off data sharing in Google Analytics to disallow Google to use the data you collect for their own advertising purposes.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#43

Post by webmobdev »

e2021 wrote: post #19
tabs_masterrace wrote: post #15

For those who have the freedom to decide what to use, I recommend looking into rolling your own. Especially if you're writing back-end services for your app anyway. After Google shutdown Fabric.io, we asked ourselves why even rely on 3rd parties for analytics. All we really wanted to know is basic usage statistics, like uniques, sessions, events. Turns out to be just a few days of work for what amounts to a CRUD serv…

collecting the data isn't the problem, its the analysis thats annoying. ie. this only gets you so far: > Small bootstrapped HTML page to view the stats, no pretty graphs or anything, just numbers. Maybe I want to see the number of some custom event per week, ok, now show me number per session, then break it down by country etc etc. I guess you could export the data to some BI tool and create a bunch of reports, but t…

> Maybe I want to see the number of some custom event per week, ok, now show me number per session, then break it down by country etc etc.

There's this thing called SQL that the oldies used to generate such reports ... Jokes apart, I agree with the suggestion to build your own analytics, or host one using some popular open source analytic software. There is more privacy awareness among users now, and sharing your data with Google or Microsoft or Facebook is the easiest way to hurt your reputation with these individuals. Has everyone forgot that webservers still generate their own visitors logs? Moreover, if you think the data is important enough to collect and analyse, it seems quite foolish to trust a third-party with it, especially a free one.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#44

Post by tinus_hn »

akmarinov wrote: post #8
maccard wrote: post #2

This is a bit of a stretch - the gist is that Apple is requiring opt-in consent to 3rd party tracking, and will start failing review for people apps that don't provide an opt in. This isn't a ban on Free analyics SDKs at all.

It's not a ban, but since all these 3rd party tracking platforms use the user's data to power ads, you have to show the opt in, which of course people will say no to, leading to the SDKs being mostly useless in your binary. Compare that to Mixpanel for example, where they don't power ads, you can skip showing the opt in and have a useful analytics SDK. Effectively the free SDKs need the data to make money for their o…

Why do these SDKs ‘need the data to make money for their owners’?

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#45

Post by simonh »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #38
tabs_masterrace wrote: post #15

For those who have the freedom to decide what to use, I recommend looking into rolling your own. Especially if you're writing back-end services for your app anyway. After Google shutdown Fabric.io, we asked ourselves why even rely on 3rd parties for analytics. All we really wanted to know is basic usage statistics, like uniques, sessions, events. Turns out to be just a few days of work for what amounts to a CRUD serv…

It's weird if the policy is you can do whatever you want as powerful as you want if you roll your own, but you can't do anything no matter how simple if you use a free third-party SDK, but... is that what it looks like?

No sorry, that isn't it at all but it's easy to see how you would think so.

You can do whatever tracking you like, however you like using whatever SDK you like, as long as you obey basically two rules:

* If you are tracking identifiable information you must present an opt-in dialog. It doesn't matter if you roll your own or use an SDK to do it.

* If you are doing 3rd party tracking, and generally these SDKs are designed to do that, you must indicate this in the App's privacy information.

Honestly, that's all there is to it. The whole article, and the "de-factor ban' narrative being pushed so hard on this forum are predicated on the assumption that doing either of these things is simply inconceivable. However if you are willing to do them, all the restrictions melt away. It's really as simple as that. Ask the users and tell them the truth. That's all that's being required.

The only complications come if you want to weasel your way out of doing these things. That's why the blog post author, and the 'de-facto ban' crowd here think this is such a fiendishly difficult problem.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#47

Post by _qulr »

simonh wrote: post #41
_qulr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, as you say, the preference of users is obvious and predictable, and Apple gives an option to users with a completely predictable outcome that will prevent analytics SDKs from being viable, then I think it's fair to say that this is a de facto ban. Whether that's good or bad is a subject for separate debate. But the main question of the article is whether developers can still use these SDKs, and the author specula…

"But the main question of the article is whether developers can still use these SDKs, and the author speculates that it will no longer be possible for developers to use them." OMG. I can't believe you just wrote that, you're just proving my case for me. Yes, developers will be able to use whatever SDKs they like, Apple won't lift a finger to stop them, in fact it's extremely simple for developers to use those SDKs. N…

From the article: "In the coming weeks, iOS 14.5 will require apps that engage in “3rd Party Tracking” to ask explicit permission, which most users will opt out of."

If most users opt out, then an analytics SDK becomes effectively useless. You're ranting about the possibility of using an analytics SDK - which nobody is denying, because it's a "de facto" ban, not a "de jure" ban. But an analytics SDK that gathers almost no analytics is not even worth having. So in effect, it's a ban.

> All they will have to do is indicate third party tracking in the App description and present an opt-in dialog.

Oh, that's all. And then get no analytics. But they can still "use" the analytics SDK... to do nothing.

You know, I don't even have any analytics whatsoever in my apps. I have no horse in this race. But I've got no problem with the phrase "de facto ban". It seems like a reasonable description of the situation. And again, some people would love a de jure ban, so it's not like the author of the article is using a "naughty" word.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#48

Post by simonh »

tinus_hn wrote: post #44
akmarinov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a ban, but since all these 3rd party tracking platforms use the user's data to power ads, you have to show the opt in, which of course people will say no to, leading to the SDKs being mostly useless in your binary. Compare that to Mixpanel for example, where they don't power ads, you can skip showing the opt in and have a useful analytics SDK. Effectively the free SDKs need the data to make money for their o…

Why do these SDKs ‘need the data to make money for their owners’?

The owners provide the SDKs for free, the only value they get from them is the analytics data.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#49

Post by threeseed »

_qulr wrote: post #36
simonh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, fourth paragraph: "Apple is also enacting a de-facto ban on these free analytics SDKs. The setup looks like this:"

Is it accurate to say that your only evidence that this article constitutes "Apple bashing" is the word "ban"? If so, that seems hypersensitive and defensive IMO. A "de facto ban" is not a "de jure ban", so it's already a pretty weak statement.

It's not a de-facto ban either. In fact it's not a ban. Period.

Advertisers could invest time and money in explaining to users what their data is being used for and the benefits it brings. Making it seem like Apple is preventing analytics by simply asking users what they want is disingenuous at best.

Re: Is Apple Banning Free Analytics SDKs?

#50

Post by threeseed »

snowwrestler wrote: post #29
laurent92 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he’s not allowed to withdraw the service if customers don’t agree. Therefore his business model, which was an exchange (not even taking users’ data, only displaying relevant ads), is required to become a donation from him to a good share of his customers, if he wants to keep the other ones who agree to advertising tracking.

The goal is to shift the ad industry away from intrusive tracking, not to ban ads as a business model. The answer will be to show ads that are made relevant using signals other than collecting personal data. I get that the digital ad industry is not set up well to do that now, but the idea is to force them to adapt. They will have to eventually if major applications of personal data are closed to them by changes like…

And also moving to everything being explicit.

Many of us are actually okay with first-party data collection. But it is ridiculous how user data is being packaged and sold to so many faceless third parties whose you don't know and whose policies are not clear.

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