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Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

cbeci.org

511–520 of 1001 posts

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#511
post #442
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the alternative is simply just using Proof of Stake and lowering the energy consumption by an estimated 99%, yes, we can be judgmental of how others use energy in this specific case. It's not Bitcoin/PoW or no cryptocurrencies at all, that's a false dichotomy, if that's what you're implying.

PoS lacks fairness. To participate in PoS, you need an existing stash of coins, which is inaccessible for many individuals from countries where cryptocurrencies are outlawed. Not forgetting to mention that participation in consensus would indirectly require going through KYC. PoW, on the other hand, is akin to buying Bitcoin with electricity - a borderless natural resource.

You need WAY more than just electricity. In order to have any chance of receiving any amount of bitcoin, you also need specialized equipment, connection to the network, and access to a mining pool.

Those three things would give a government interested in banning cryptocurrencies plenty of leverage to disrupt mining operations in their country.

All they would need to do is regulate the import of ASIC mining hardware; sinkhole any traffic that looks "bitcoin-y" (damn the collateral damage, we're fighting fascist communist pedophile terrorist drug traffickers here!) and similarly block access to any known mining pools.

They could go even further and introduce severe and draconian penalties to anyone producing, possessing, or using cryptocurrencies (which of course would be selectively enforced).

At this point, once you factor in the real-world element, the fact that, in theory, you only need electricity to produce bitcoin becomes such a small part of that equation.

I think at that point why not use PoS (or better yet, a DPoS scheme), if there isn't any real-world benefit to PoW? I think the tradeoff of introducing a small amount of revocable trust in exchange for RADICALLY reduced energy consumption is pretty clearly worth it, given the real world constraints.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#512
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

It's a salvo in the imminent central banks attack against this serious threat, that would compete with their fiat experiment. They are not sure yet whether to use the environmental angle or the "terrorist use of Bitcoin" like Yellen announced .

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of stake is relatively simple. You agree to stake a minimum amount of tokens (decided on by the network) and you get to run a node and validate transactions. If you attest to a malicious block and other validators call you out on it, you get slashed (i.e. you lose some portion of your stake, if not all of it): https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/consensus-mechanisms... One of the problems with it is that it…

> no single holder owns more than 1% of ETH You mean no single wallet?

No, I mean people. Unless you count centralized exchanges that represent thousands to millions of users' pooled ETH, as people. Even then, the largest of these has about 2.5% of ETH supply.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#514
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

> Bitcoin is now considered by some important for our future finance system.

Really? give us a source, one who isn't either a grifter, a shill, or a criminal.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#515
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

How many of those directly convert electricity into profit?

How many of those businesses have been rent seeking countries/states/locations that subsidize electricity for their populations?

Electricity is one of those things most of society has deemed an essential good, and as such has subsidized it for the poorest among us. Bitcoin farmers are abusing that system to turn the government subsidies into personal profit for a handful.

Let's not even begin to equate THAT to someone going to a concert put on for the benefit of and at the cost to those participating.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#516
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't and even BTC enthusiasts have given up on that. They narrative is now that BTC is a "store of value".

Exactly. Here's VC and prominent cryptocurrency enthusiast Fred Wilson saying exactly that: https://avc.com/2017/08/store-of-value-vs-payment-system/ While I agree with him that Bitcoin is a terrible currency, I think the "store of value" thing is nonsense as well. Stores of value need to have relatively stable value. Bitcoin is hugely volatile. That's great for speculation, but nobody with any sense would use it as…

Bitcoin makes sense as a store of value because it is likely to survive dramatic global economic failure. The short term volatility is higher, but it's counter-correlated with almost everything else and is a great hedge against societal collapse.

Perhaps not the most fun thing to hedge against, but just like buying life insurance it's a good idea.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#517
post #488
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If maintaining the infrastructure for something a miniscule percentage of the world's population benefit from requires more energy than entire countries, surely it's worth interrogating whether the benefits outweigh the costs?

True. Let's let one guy, then, decides how our energy should be consumed.

Maybe that guy deciding shouldn't have financial motivation, incentive, e.g. be part of the MLM scheme that they're incentivized to have succeed regardless of the costs, e.g. the guy having a conflict of interest?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#518

At that rate and assuming 4tx per second a single Bitcoin transaction consumes 165kWh. A Tesla battery is bit over 50kWh. So let's round that to 3 full charges of Tesla battery. That's 350km/220 miles of range per charge. In total 1050km or 660 miles of driving. So basically if you want to transfer money and the recipient is closer than 660 miles from you it's more efficient to just get a bunch of bills, drive there…

And the cost of an off-chain transaction? Actually, you're right, that's not worth mentioning because that doesn't fit with your argument.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#519
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

I mostly agree. As long as the price of energy is adequately priced, we should be able to make our own decisions on what amenities we need. You need a F150? Great, but be prepared to pay for its use. Naturally, the question immediately becomes, who decides what is adequate, which is not fun.

Incidentally, I am learning about bitcoin now since it is clearly becoming mainstream and it is related to my job. I am trying to build a miner ( I don't want one click zerohash solutions for variety of reasons ) on Ubuntu derivative ( POPos ) and now I am stuck troubleshooting pool connections. Anyone could recommend a reliable resource? I am starting to get really aggravated by having to google every single error encountered.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#520
post #372
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

If maintaining the infrastructure for something a miniscule percentage of the world's population benefit from requires more energy than entire countries, surely it's worth interrogating whether the benefits outweigh the costs?

I'm not against bitcoin anymore than I am against unnecessary taxation but since bitcoin uses electricity at an insanely unnecessary quantity it should be taxed to the hilt to make up for increased environmental and infrastructure costs that are borne onto the 99.999% that do not participate in the scam.
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