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Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

cbeci.org

451–460 of 1001 posts

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#451
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a huge potential in cryptocurrencies, just not in Bitcoin per se. I can totally see the European Central Bank controlling some kind of CryptoEuro that is tied to the real euro and allows individuals to make transactions without banks. Banks would become an optional frontend on this transaction system, with security features built-in, etc.

If you see something like the CryptoEuro taking off, doesn't it naturally follow that there would be a cryptocurrency that would take off that was global, and not issued by any individual country?

Not really. I would find a way of transferring "cash" that's tied to my local currency far more useful on a day to day basis than one that fluctuates when measured against it.

Most people don't really need or want to take on foreign exchange rate risks.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#452
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

> Bitcoin is now considered by some important for our future finance system Yeah, but those people are wrong. It's perfectly reasonable to judge them for doing harmful actions in service of a wrong belief.

Why are they wrong?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Follow the big money. Michael Saylor from Microstrategies: $1B. Elon Musk from Tesla: $1.5B. GrayScale: not sure how many dollars, but they own >550,000 bitcoins. Big money is of the opinion that bitcoin is an excellent store of value. Only a matter of time before it becomes a medium of exchange. And later on, a unit of account. By that time, you won't be asking yourself what 1 bitcoin is worth anymore. Things will b…

Big money can write it off as a business expense on their taxes if it goes down. The average individual doesn't have that upside.

Unlike other investment decisions you mean?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#454
post #418
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If maintaining the infrastructure for something a miniscule percentage of the world's population benefit from requires more energy than entire countries, surely it's worth interrogating whether the benefits outweigh the costs?

> a minuscule percentage This is true right now considering how nascent this is, but what happens if adoption picks up? One thing I’d like to see discussed is what the marginal power cost of Bitcoin is. From where I sit, the vast majority of power consumption is fixed per block, and occurs regardless of whether you have 1 or 10,000 transactions.

You can't fit 10,000 transactions in a block on BTC.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#455
post #265

Ok, I have to admit that I am one of those people who knew about BTC very, very early but never bought any. Now, of course I should have mined at least 100 back in the days, but anyways. The reason I have never mined nor bought into it is that I still, to this day struggle to come up with a real reason to do so. Am I getting too old? Do I not see the "huge potential" what it may become? Don't I want to get freaking r…

You can send me money across the globe without a middleman or anyone being able to block that transfer. That's it. If you don't want that, you don't want that. Some of us do.

Unless, you know, it’s illegal. Then someone with a gun might take you & it away.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#456
post #441
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

Even more directly - How much energy does all the world's "legacy" Fintech use? Banks, exchanges, government tax agencies, accountants, money printing, retail cash machines (ATM, registers, etc) and all the way to gold mining.

When bitcoin provides 1% of the services that the "legacy" financial world does, let's talk.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#457
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

One bitcoin transaction uses FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND TIMES more energy than one Visa transaction [1]. This is like lighting a cigar with a $500 bill and going "what, I have to light my cigars somehow, and inevitably it'll cost something. I spend money to meet my goals."

[1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-co...

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#458
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

This is the most concise and crystallized attempt at putting this (certainly popular and in some ways inevitable) argument into relatable words. Kudos.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#459
post #265

Ok, I have to admit that I am one of those people who knew about BTC very, very early but never bought any. Now, of course I should have mined at least 100 back in the days, but anyways. The reason I have never mined nor bought into it is that I still, to this day struggle to come up with a real reason to do so. Am I getting too old? Do I not see the "huge potential" what it may become? Don't I want to get freaking r…

In terms of getting rich, that was luck. Some people with perhaps more money than sense played the lottery and won. Bitcoin could have, and might still fail with governments giving it more scrutiny as it grows, or this may be its peak, so anyone buying now is screwed. No way to know.

It's also easy to look back at Amazon and say you should have invested back when they were an online bookstore that talked a big game. With the information available at the time it arguably would have been a stupid decision.

For everyone who won big on Amazon and everyone who's winning big on Bitcoin, there are thousands if not millions of investors who bet on something with legitimate confidence and lost it all or under-performed.

As for what it is, as far as I'm concerned it's just another commodity. The value of said commodity can be debated, the same way people can talk about how silver is not only a precious metal but has substantial industrial demand driving it, unlike gold. They're still all commodities.

Now plenty of people have played the commodity lottery and gotten crazy rich in crazy circumstances that are hard if not impossible to repeat. If you want to try and be one of them by speculating on bitcoin, don't use any money you can't lose.

For my perspective, my financial goals for my family haven't been met yet and probably won't be for a couple of decades given that we've yet to buy a house and the wife and I are hoping to give our future kids a full ride through college. I can invest the money I make in cheap, diversified funds based on Fama/French factors and have nobel-winning math and statistics saying I have a positive expected return over time given 100 years of stock market history, or I can gamble it in the various single-stock/commodity/sector lotteries with large amounts of uncompensated risk and hope I win big, but more likely lose and never meet my goals.

My current solution to "more money" is I'm seriously looking into trying to get some sort of lifestyle business going on top of my day job. Worst case scenario it sharpens my technical skills and makes me even more employable. I like sets of outcomes that don't include (or at least minimize the likelihood of) "zero".

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#460
post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

I do agree that most of these articles are picking on bitcoin. I think the main problem people have is the actual result of the mining is useless, say compared to using all those computers for MI or Folding @ Home. I think a better solution would be to get rid of these random bytes and replace them with a Folding @ Home or similar solution, where the computing power you donate results in you getting X bitcoin. Things…

The actual result of mining is defending the network against double-spending (and censorship, to a degree — though this is more fragile). Insofar as you believe that Bitcoin-the-currency is itself a social positive, the mining process has a positive effect. (But also a very meaningful cost, which leads us to a subtler question — is it a net positive?)
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