Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index • Hacker News Board

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#381

Post by louwrentius » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #328

tmoravec wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is a potentially revolutionary technology in a very early stage. The important new part, the consensus algorithm, is ground breaking. Now, the very first implementation (Bitcoin) kinda sucks, like most technologies in their first versions. But there are newer generations, each more interesting, and each unlocking more possibilities. We are for example getting: * No-autority enforcement of contracts (Ethereum)…

Bitcoin is over a decade old by now. It’s certainly not become a revolutionary technology and is not in its infancy.

Fully agree, I bet somebody will reply that Bitcoin is like the early internet soon...

https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/04/05/debunking-bu...

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#382

Post by marliechiller » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

kgwgk wrote: post #335

axxxo93 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate an honest question. The negative sentiment around crypto is a bit extreme imo. Bitcoin does have intrinsic value. A trustless P2P payment network has value. Is POW flawed, yes. This is a big reason why I prefer and hold Ethereum. Eth is moving to POS which is vastly more efficient. It also has additional programability in the form of smart contracts that bitcoin does not have. Look into the DeFi space fo…

When even the people who says that Bitcoin has intrinsic value prefer something else it's hard to buy the argument. What's the intrinsic value of Bitcoin then? $10000? $100? $1?

whats the intrinsic value of anything. currency is just an idea that a group of people all agree to abide by. I wont accept French Francs for payment - 30 years ago they were worth something - now people have agreed it should be replaced by the Euro. there is nothing physically different between the Frank and the Euro beyond the combined trust of the group. BTC is just another example except it doesnt have a physical existence

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#383

Post by School-Cotton » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

> Bitcoin is now considered by some important for our future finance system

Yeah, but those people are wrong. It's perfectly reasonable to judge them for doing harmful actions in service of a wrong belief.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#384

Post by AshamedCaptain » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

> $X is now considered by some important for our future finance system. While not everybody agrees, this may be more important than countless other ways we use energy, for much more trivial reasons. [...] Being judgmental about how others use energy they pay for reeks of hypocrisy, virtue signaling and holier-than-thou attitude.

Et voilà!

"Some" people think $X is now important, and thus, the rest of the world shall no longer be able to produce judgements on either $X or "those people".

I think it is definitely up for debate, and we can ask questions such as how absurd $X actually is (or is not), how absurdly wasteful (or not) $X is, how many "some people" is, whether the assumption that $X is important for $Y is true (or not), etc.

Please...

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#385

Post by DavidPeiffer » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #265

Ok, I have to admit that I am one of those people who knew about BTC very, very early but never bought any. Now, of course I should have mined at least 100 back in the days, but anyways. The reason I have never mined nor bought into it is that I still, to this day struggle to come up with a real reason to do so. Am I getting too old? Do I not see the "huge potential" what it may become? Don't I want to get freaking r…

>Ok, I have to admit that I am one of those people who knew about BTC very, very early but never bought any.

I was too. I told a friend who owns a data center about it, and mentioned maybe he could stress test servers by mining bitcoin (this was before 2011, mining was very reasonable on consumer hardware). He never did to my knowledge.

December of 2019 I ran into him and he thanked me for telling him about bitcoin all those years ago. He sold one for around $16,000, and still had 11 more. He literally didn't care if they dropped to $0, he considered it a win.

I should reach out and see if he has sold another one this week. He could buy a new SUV outright.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#386

Post by louwrentius » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

birracerveza wrote: post #379

This site is called Hacker News, and yet there is a surprising amount of resilience to accept the utility provided by Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, with the same old tirades that keep being repeated ever since Bitcoin was worth less than $1. The ecosystem has grown and has been finding real world applications. If you are still of the opinion that cryptocurrency is exclusive to buying drugs, laundering money and scammin…

I am very interested in actual real-world applications. Because I'm following HN and I haven't seen any.

Currently, it seems to me that Bitcoin is mostly an enabler for crypto-ransomware and other illegal stuff.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#387

Post by Shoue » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

When the alternative is simply just using Proof of Stake and lowering the energy consumption by an estimated 99%, yes, we can be judgmental of how others use energy in this specific case. It's not Bitcoin/PoW or no cryptocurrencies at all, that's a false dichotomy, if that's what you're implying.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#388

Post by CydeWeys » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

dixego wrote: post #372

nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

If maintaining the infrastructure for something a miniscule percentage of the world's population benefit from requires more energy than entire countries, surely it's worth interrogating whether the benefits outweigh the costs?

But how do you set differential electricity prices by type of use? That seems nightmarish to try to enforce. So you criticize the miners, but what can actually be done about it?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#389

Post by hoseja » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #364

AnonsLadder wrote: post #333

It's hilarious to see the naysayers about Bitcoin say that BTC is not usable. Now it's worth almost 50 grand and all they can come up with is expensive transaction fees which in hindsight, are really not that expensive, and the energy consumption of maintaining the Bitcoin network. It sure is a lot better than using human lives, usually & most likely forced labor, to mine real Gold. Right? After all, energy is free w…

>>It sure is a lot better than using human lives, usually & most likely forced labor, to mine real Gold. Right? Bitcoin is purported to be an alternative to fiat money, not gold. And most governments can print fiat money at will, with virtually no energy.

And what is the cost of the massive capacity for and monopoly on violence that nation-states derive this capability to print money out of thin air from?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#390

Post by stickfigure » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #364

AnonsLadder wrote: post #333

It's hilarious to see the naysayers about Bitcoin say that BTC is not usable. Now it's worth almost 50 grand and all they can come up with is expensive transaction fees which in hindsight, are really not that expensive, and the energy consumption of maintaining the Bitcoin network. It sure is a lot better than using human lives, usually & most likely forced labor, to mine real Gold. Right? After all, energy is free w…

>>It sure is a lot better than using human lives, usually & most likely forced labor, to mine real Gold. Right? Bitcoin is purported to be an alternative to fiat money, not gold. And most governments can print fiat money at will, with virtually no energy.

> governments can print fiat money at will, with virtually no energy

I get what you're saying, but that's not really true. You have to account for the military spending required to preserve the legitimacy of your fiat currency. Any nation-state can afford the same printing presses you have.