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OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

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Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#191
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that OSM is great and highly accurate, I would be careful using it in remote locations where your life may depend on a correct trail. It is very easy to edit OSM (changes are propagated into map tiles after a few minutes), and malicious intent is not immediately spotted. The latter is especially true in remote locations.

I mean...sure, never blindly trust anything. But is there any proof of "malicious intent" in OSM mapping, having lead to actual issues?

I mean...sure, never blindly trust anything

This. 'death by GPS' is a thing unfortunately, and those are usually maps you actually pay for which makes it worse, in some way.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#192
post #150
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quite like that interactive website that helps visitors choose a mapping tool: https://whatosm.pavie.info/ It asks the difficulty level, time you'd like to spend, and whether you want to map at home or on the terrain.

You should be aware that it rather biased (doesn't show tools that are in competition to those that the author was involved in), and out of date.

That could be, but it's a start, and helped me discover a few tools.

Do you have a list of such tools? Do you have a source for attributing this to malice rather than ignorance?

Now, my personal opinion on mobile editing: Vespucci is a bit complex, but basically allows you to do anything on the go. I ususally save GPX tracks using OSMAnd, but it can be heavy on the battery.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#193
post #176
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Apple is USING OpenStreetMap which is a different thing - they pulled the data but haven't contributed much back as they're building their own proprietary backend.

Apple does contribute to OSM quite a bit, see around 4:00 in https://2020.stateofthemap.org/sessions/SPRQVZ/ for details of corporate contributions: "Apple is currently doing the most work on the map". Here is the base repository of their contributions on GitHub: https://github.com/osmlab/appledata And if I see this correctly, the #adt hashtag (for Apple Data Team) contains already +100000 changesets for this year al…

They also pay Kaart to do it, so most if not all of the Kaart contributions are paid for by Apple.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Apple#Contributions_thro...

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#194
post #4

Good that OSM is accurate in cities as well, because in hiking, skiing, or even some ferry routes, OSM simply wins because that's often the only mapping provider to even have _any_ data. Some of my first hand experiences: - French GR-20 routes. Google maps are laughably empty, while OSM has you covered with almost the same information as the hiking maps you can buy on the trail. - Anapurna - similar to GR-20 situatio…

You can look at French hiking maps online at https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte - I find it works well for planning a route and then I use OSM when I'm actually doing the hike.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#195
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to start paying for software because if you don't then you're the product. Payment might include leasing out your infrastructure to the project until cryptos become viable for something other than ponzi schemes.

Are you aware of software developed as a hobby or as part of the actual product (without making the user a product) or as a limited version demonstrating full product?

There is a reason why we don't visit surgeons who do it as a hobby.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#196

The problem I have with OpenStreetMap is the license, it seems you can use an OSM derived base map and then layer anything else on top without problems, but you cannot process the data or mix in proprietary data without releasing the algorithm or the final dataset. So any competitive advantage derived from processing the data has to be immediately made open. So you see a lot of use of OSM as a base map, but very litt…

Can you elaborate where license would be a problem? Keep in mind this: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidel... Which eases the issue a little bit. For instance, MS uses OSM buildings for Bing Maps. Or Apple uses OSM for road data in selected countries (Ukraine?)

I’ll give a contrived example, say you’re a property startup, and you want to produce a walkability rating for each house you sell. You might want to do a calculation on OSM for restaurants within 5 minutes walk, maybe a chef rating for whether there’s a greengrocer, fishmonger, delicatessen and butcher within walking distance, or you want to take into account a walk back from the train station and the opening times to see whether the shops are still open after someone comes back from their commute. This is the kind of thing which would be interesting for big cities with a lot of commuting by public transport.

My understanding is if you did this with OSM data you’d either have to make the algorithm that did the calculation public, or the output dataset (locations as keys and the final ratings for each as values).

OSM has exceptions for horizontal slicing (layer separate data on top of an OSM basemap), for vertical slicing (union OSM data with separate data) and for trivial manipulations, but it seems it doesn’t if you do this kind of non-trivial processing of OSM data.

So that means that it’s almost impossible for a company to find an interesting way of processing the data which can give them an advantage over a direct competitor, and there’s no real incentive to do so.

This is my reading of the terms from a few months back, hopefully I’m wrong about it. But I suspect this is why it’s rare to see the data being used like this.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#197
post #46

Now if only there was a sensible way to self-host OSM data. From what I've found you either have to build a dedicated server to continuously building the tiles (which takes a ton of storage and processing power) or pay for it at an insane monthly price. I wish OSM would directly make their tiles available to mirror. (Maybe they do, but I haven't found it yet)

https://openmaptiles.org/ might be an option, although it doesn't include everything Open Street Map itself includes.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#198
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think Google was the "good guy" by providing so many resources for free, but I've realized how they've exploited their market dominance by essentially manipulating the masses with their ad service. We need to move away from conglomerates and start using software that doesn't sell your soul to the devil.

You need to start paying for software because if you don't then you're the product. Payment might include leasing out your infrastructure to the project until cryptos become viable for something other than ponzi schemes.

There is a fallacy in that conclusion though.

When you pay, you may still be a product. There is no (economic) law that dictates that when you pay, your data may not be sold.

Paying customers might dissapear if they find out you make additional profit through datamining or -sales. So there is more incentive not to sell or mine data, but it is no guarantee.

The only guarantee is when technology ensures the service provider does not have the data at all. E.g. through e2e encryption.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#199
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wiki states that this data type is being proposed: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Surfac...

Says the proposal is abandoned in 2011. The thing is OSM does not deal with real time data, the general rule is if the data is likely to change within the next month it doesn't go in OSM. A lot of OSM apps and servers cache the OSM dataset so anything like a road closed for one day would be stale before it even reached users. Thats one of the big issues with OSM though, they have an attitude of "Thats not my problem,…

There are people working on layering the data better. I was at a talk about this at two State of the Map conferences. I don't have links or names ready, on mobile, sorry.

The idea, in my words, is to have a standard on how to link between layers: how to merge them, so to say.

That way, a routing app for a car would only need the roads and their features layers. But the search engine for tourists needs the poi layer and not all the road details.

A 'live' layer for e.g. traffic density could then be a neat commercial product for OSM consumers. But without standards to link your layer to, say, the OSM streets, it is almost impossible to offer and process such a layer.

Re: OpenStreetMap proven to be a highly accurate map in top US cities

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just looked it up and apparently, all tiles would take up 54 TB[0], and even just the important tiles are around 1TB. I now understand why just downloading them isn't an option. [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_disk_usage

It specifically says: OSM does NOT pre-render every tile. Pre-rendering all tiles would use around 54 TB of storage that 54TB figure is only if you pre-render into raster every zoom level of every tile for the whole world. a more typical self hosted openstreetmap renders the tiles on demand as you scroll or move the map. Disk space usage is MUCH less, such that my test/development setup fits well on a virtual machine…

Maybe the tileset could be distributed via torrent, like how they distribute the main dataset.
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