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Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

blog.jordan.matelsky.com

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Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#11

Post by whowe1 »

jsrcout wrote: post #9
FPGAhacker wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fascinating. But I always get uncomfortable reading stuff like this... I mean, they are placing sensors in a turtle’s brain, physically immobilizing it, aiming its head at a screen for a while, and you generally don’t release something to the wild after that. The ethical thing is considered to be killing it. I get that there are a lot of aspects to modern life that sterilize the gruesomeness of reality. Still m…

I feel you. I made the mistake of looking up a paper on vision in cats once. Once was enough.

Do you eat meat?

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#12

Post by wombatmobile »

whowe1 wrote: post #11
jsrcout wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel you. I made the mistake of looking up a paper on vision in cats once. Once was enough.

Do you eat meat?

It is possible to eat meat and to value and respect animals. It requires the holding of two paradigms simultaneously. These paradigms are not incompatible or necessarily in conflict with each other.

Paradigm 1. Animals are awesome. Wanton killing is wrong.

Paradigm 2. Killing animals for food is OK provided the animal is killed humanely, the food is not wasted, and the animal is revered for its contribution.

Most people are able to do this. Some of them get lazy with the part about reverence, because the supermarket puts animals and the life cycle process out of sight and out of mind, hence there are few triggers for reverence.

Similarly, it is possible to use animals for scientific research and to value and respect animals. It requires the holding of two paradigms simultaneously. These paradigms are more difficult to state than in the case of carnivorous food above.

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#13

Post by techbio »

helge9210 wrote: post #10

Colleague of mine was working on research of vision system of a spitting fish. The fish hunts by spitting water at insects sitting on the leaves above the water surface. What they found out that "firing solution" is formed in the retina and passed to the brain to initiate the spit.

Fascinating. Any details available on this?

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#14

Post by nefitty »

wombatmobile wrote: post #12
whowe1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you eat meat?

It is possible to eat meat and to value and respect animals. It requires the holding of two paradigms simultaneously. These paradigms are not incompatible or necessarily in conflict with each other. Paradigm 1. Animals are awesome. Wanton killing is wrong. Paradigm 2. Killing animals for food is OK provided the animal is killed humanely, the food is not wasted, and the animal is revered for its contribution. Most peo…

Animals don’t “contribute”. That implies some act of conscious sacrifice on the part of the animal.

Those two paradigms can be boiled down to “Animals are pretty objects that I can kill and eat if I so desire.” It’s the polar opposite of reverence.

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#15

Post by wombatmobile »

nefitty wrote: post #14
wombatmobile wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to eat meat and to value and respect animals. It requires the holding of two paradigms simultaneously. These paradigms are not incompatible or necessarily in conflict with each other. Paradigm 1. Animals are awesome. Wanton killing is wrong. Paradigm 2. Killing animals for food is OK provided the animal is killed humanely, the food is not wasted, and the animal is revered for its contribution. Most peo…

Animals don’t “contribute”. That implies some act of conscious sacrifice on the part of the animal. Those two paradigms can be boiled down to “Animals are pretty objects that I can kill and eat if I so desire.” It’s the polar opposite of reverence.

You can boil paradigms down into whatever you like.

What you say I think and feel is not an accurate representation of what I think and feel. It is an indication of what you think and feel.

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#16

Post by [deleted] »

nefitty wrote: post #14
wombatmobile wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to eat meat and to value and respect animals. It requires the holding of two paradigms simultaneously. These paradigms are not incompatible or necessarily in conflict with each other. Paradigm 1. Animals are awesome. Wanton killing is wrong. Paradigm 2. Killing animals for food is OK provided the animal is killed humanely, the food is not wasted, and the animal is revered for its contribution. Most peo…

Animals don’t “contribute”. That implies some act of conscious sacrifice on the part of the animal. Those two paradigms can be boiled down to “Animals are pretty objects that I can kill and eat if I so desire.” It’s the polar opposite of reverence.

[deleted]

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#17

Post by rhn_mk1 »

nefitty wrote: post #14
wombatmobile wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to eat meat and to value and respect animals. It requires the holding of two paradigms simultaneously. These paradigms are not incompatible or necessarily in conflict with each other. Paradigm 1. Animals are awesome. Wanton killing is wrong. Paradigm 2. Killing animals for food is OK provided the animal is killed humanely, the food is not wasted, and the animal is revered for its contribution. Most peo…

Animals don’t “contribute”. That implies some act of conscious sacrifice on the part of the animal. Those two paradigms can be boiled down to “Animals are pretty objects that I can kill and eat if I so desire.” It’s the polar opposite of reverence.

Not quite. Nowhere in those paradigms is the "pretty objects" part implied. But it does put some version of "I'm hungry" as passing the "wanton" threshold for killing something "awesome".

Which in my opinion is the real weakness of this proposal. You won't find me destroying something I consider awesome unless I'm actually starving.

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#18

Post by nefitty »

wombatmobile wrote: post #15
nefitty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals don’t “contribute”. That implies some act of conscious sacrifice on the part of the animal. Those two paradigms can be boiled down to “Animals are pretty objects that I can kill and eat if I so desire.” It’s the polar opposite of reverence.

You can boil paradigms down into whatever you like. What you say I think and feel is not an accurate representation of what I think and feel. It is an indication of what you think and feel.

If that’s your response then what’s the point of trying to rationalize your meat eating? If you like meat that comes from animals that are unnecessarily killed then that’s your prerogative, but don’t try to dress it up in spiritual terms like “reverence”.

Re: Turtle visual cortex is non-retinotopic

#19

Post by shatnersbassoon »

helge9210 wrote: post #10

Colleague of mine was working on research of vision system of a spitting fish. The fish hunts by spitting water at insects sitting on the leaves above the water surface. What they found out that "firing solution" is formed in the retina and passed to the brain to initiate the spit.

I'd be interested to see if the LGN of the turtle is performing distinct functions to those of mammals. LGN is a super interesting component of the visual system - e.g. iirc people with dyslexia have morphologically distinct LGNs.
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