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Elfstedentocht

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Re: Elfstedentocht

#51

Post by tinco »

hutzlibu wrote: post #45
lcrz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As ice grows thicker people from all walks of life start to get involved to organize the event. This is not completely accurate. Sure, koek-en-zopie stuff might be organized by local restaurants or whatever, but the Elfstedentocht itself is prepared (almost) completely every single year. There is a whole foundation with internal hierarchy that oversees the process. The whole parcourse can be constructed on a 48 hou…

"The waterschappen don't stop their pumps out of hospitality or something," So do they get compensation?

I don't think they do, pretty sure they stop out of hospitality..

Re: Elfstedentocht

#52

Post by Freak_NL »

polytely wrote: post #33
_bfoy wrote: post #31

The current situation https://www.friescheijsbond.frl/schaatskaart Blue = water or ice Green = ice >15cm

Wow I didn't know Fryslan (Friesland) has its own tld, that pretty cool. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.frl

It's pretty cool.

About the province's name though: it's Fryslân (West Frisian (a language spoken in the province) and official Dutch), Frisia (English), or Friesland (Dutch vernacular).

The reason it is called 'Friesland' on English language Wikipedia has to with the fact that there are (seemingly) no acceptable sources that can prove that Frisia is what most Frisian folk call their province in English, and what English speaking folk that have some dealings with the province do too. Of course, often the official West Frisian and Dutch name of 'Fryslân' is used as well in various documents and publications, but due to a number of non-Frisian Dutch Wikipedians who hate that the official name can be used in English instead of the Dutch vernacular 'Friesland' (language politics, often bordering on rather nasty nationalistic sentiments), English Wikipedia uses the vernacular Dutch name that is neither the common exonym (Frisia) nor the official name and endonym (Fryslân).

Re: Elfstedentocht

#53

Post by the-dude »

Freak_NL wrote: post #48
the-dude wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are so proud. A real man of the peoples.

And as our prime minister strongly advised his fellow countrymen to avoid travelling abroad unnecessarily last October as the virus spread and our economy took a hit, our king and his royal family sat on their royal arses in a government plane en-route to the private royal holiday home in Greece for a well-deserved royal holiday break. He was already aware of the prime minister's message before he left; he just didn'…

You forgot to mention we pay him a lot of money each year.

Re: Elfstedentocht

#55

Post by Udik »

armada651 wrote: post #4

This is kind of the equivalent of the Superbowl for the Dutch, but due to global warming it hasn't been held in 24 years. The previous longest interval was 22 years, so some people are starting to doubt whether it will ever happen again. Imagine if the real Superbowl wasn't held in 24 years due to global warming and may never happen again, perhaps then it would be more of a priority.

It's not the equivalent of the superbowl for the Dutch. It was never a yearly competition to begin with. It was always a very rare and unpredictable event- the 4th edition took place 12 years after the third, and the gap had nothing to do with climate change: it was 1929.

Re: Elfstedentocht

#56

Post by Freak_NL »

hutzlibu wrote: post #46
Freak_NL wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As some journalists have noted: the 'fever' shows up mostly below the imaginary line you get if you connect the cities of Alkmaar and Zwolle. That is, there is no 'fever' in the province of Fryslân (or Frisia in English) where the event is held and treasured most dearly. Here in the province people are resigned to the event not happening this year, due to a lack of decent ice and Covid. There will be plenty of skatin…

"due to a lack of decent ice " Well, at least the ice should be there, soon?

Seems doubtful at this point. The quality of the ice is quite bad up North because of the snow (you get brittle snowy ice), and the weather predications note a 75% chance of thaw setting in come Monday:

https://www.knmi.nl/nederland-nu/weer/verwachtingen

Some people might go skating in the weekend, but really, the thickness of the ice is pretty minimal. As the local ice master says:

> Der sil hjir en dêr wol wat riden wurde, mar dat is de ferantwurdlikens fan minsken sels. Wy sille de sleatten en fearten noch net frij jaan. Dat sjoch ik der net fan kommen. Ik jou pas grien ljocht as der op bepaalde plakken in smak minsken oer it iis kin.

(https://www.lc.nl/friesland/IJsmeester-acht-kans-op-schaatse...)

That is: he won't green-light the ice for safe use by the public, and it is quite literally nowhere near the thickness required for a mass event.

Re: Elfstedentocht

#57

Post by cr1895 »

m463 wrote: post #11

When I was a kid, I grew up in the US where we had snow in the winter but we had to walk or take a bus to school. People would say folks in scandanavian countries were able to skate to school or work and we would all just dream how amazing it would be.

Perhaps you are not implying so, but Netherlands is not Scandinavia and is located a fair bit further south.

Re: Elfstedentocht

#58

Post by TeMPOraL »

armada651 wrote: post #4

This is kind of the equivalent of the Superbowl for the Dutch, but due to global warming it hasn't been held in 24 years. The previous longest interval was 22 years, so some people are starting to doubt whether it will ever happen again. Imagine if the real Superbowl wasn't held in 24 years due to global warming and may never happen again, perhaps then it would be more of a priority.

Isn't 24 years well past the point of anyone caring? That's a whole generation of people becoming adults without ever experiencing the event. I think after 24 years without Superbowl, Americans would just consider it a historical curiosity, and holding it again wouldn't be a national priority.

Re: Elfstedentocht

#59

Post by cr1895 »

hobofan wrote: post #37
rollulus wrote: post #23

Some context: the Elfstedentocht has become pretty rare due to climate change. Now guess what, while currently being in lockdown, the possibility for an Elfstedentocht is increasing since it's pretty cold to our standards right now. This Elfstedentocht typically attracts hundred thousands of people. Interesting times.

Isn't it also due to heightened security measures, which have increased in pretty much every sport over the decades? The non-race of 2012 sounds like it possibly could have happened and I would assume would have happened in the ~40s under similar conditions.

What sort of heightened security measures? I think nothing of the sort would hamper an Elfstedentocht.

The Vierdaagse is also a mass volunteer-driven event and it happens regularly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Four_Days_Marc...

Re: Elfstedentocht

#60

Post by vanderZwan »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #58
armada651 wrote: post #4

This is kind of the equivalent of the Superbowl for the Dutch, but due to global warming it hasn't been held in 24 years. The previous longest interval was 22 years, so some people are starting to doubt whether it will ever happen again. Imagine if the real Superbowl wasn't held in 24 years due to global warming and may never happen again, perhaps then it would be more of a priority.

Isn't 24 years well past the point of anyone caring? That's a whole generation of people becoming adults without ever experiencing the event. I think after 24 years without Superbowl, Americans would just consider it a historical curiosity, and holding it again wouldn't be a national priority.

It only makes the event more mythological. Also, it's easy for non-Dutch to underestimate how big of a deal speedskating is to the Dutch (and how big of a deal the Dutch are in speedskating). EDIT: I'll attempt to give an impression.

The medal count at the 2018 Winter Olympics might be a good starting point, look at how the Dutch dominated that event[0]. Keep in mind that we're a really tiny nation, so that suggests a disproportionate amount of Olympic-level speedskaters per capita. Which only makes sense if it's a really big sport here.

Another example: I assume that when you ask the average American who Shani Davis is you'll get a blank stare, despite his great achievements[1]. Ask the average Dutch person and they'll know, and might even tell you about "that cute fridge-scene with the Erben Wennemars picture"[2][3].

Now let's compare other nations where speedskating is still a thing. Nao Kodara might be a bit more famous in Japan than Davis is in the US, but check out her Twitter bio and you'll see a photo of the Elfstedentocht monument[4][5][6]. To professional speedskaters all over the world, the Dutch are an example (the fact that we often love them more than most people in their own country probably doesn't hurt either).

So yeah, speedskating is deeply embedded in the Dutch national identity, arguably even more than soccer because it feels like our sport.

You do make me wonder if narratives around national identity work a little differently on smaller scales though (remember that the Netherlands is a small nation of about 17.5 million people). Maybe the US is too big for a thing like this.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_skating_at_the_2018_Wint...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shani_Davis

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNKa6eK2NU

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erben_Wennemars

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nao_Kodaira

[5] https://twitter.com/Nao_kodaira

[6] https://yktoo.com/en/blog/post/2015/11/22-the-monument-of-el...

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