Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YC is a cult

danielharan.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 159 posts

Re: YC is a cult

#121

Post by LogicHoleFlaw »

echair wrote: post #112
ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the best thread for this question, what is with all these pc, lg, pd (two letter, pg lookalike)usernames? Are you trying to be like him? Or hoping that a not-so-attentive user will read you and or vote you up because of that nickname? There seem to be way more than I see elsewhere, so I don't think abbreviating based on the first and last names is the only explanation.

It's just the classic hacker username convention: rms, jmc, rtm, pg, gls, esr, tlb.

jwz is another well-known example.

Re: YC is a cult

#122

Post by danielharan »

mattmaroon wrote: post #117
danielharan wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never applied, although encouraged others to do so. If people working insanely long hours is actually mythology, that actually hurts YC: sane people will avoid applying in the first place. If the long hours is really true, then people aren't being productive, also hurting YC. Either way, call me a troll but this is something YC should be making clear.

YC doesn't dictate how many hours you work. They aren't project managers or pointy haired bosses. They're investors. Your biggest mistake is taking the blog entry of one startup out of 100 or so that they've funded and assuming that what they do is typical and/or directed by YC.

I wish it were selection bias. Unfortunately, every time I hear about a YC company they seem to brag about the hours they work.

Are there numbers about this? A survey of average hours worked in YC startups (ideally separating code / biz time) would be helpful to give people a realistic idea of what they're signing up for when they apply.

Re: YC is a cult

#123

Post by icey »

danielharan wrote: post #122
mattmaroon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC doesn't dictate how many hours you work. They aren't project managers or pointy haired bosses. They're investors. Your biggest mistake is taking the blog entry of one startup out of 100 or so that they've funded and assuming that what they do is typical and/or directed by YC.

I wish it were selection bias. Unfortunately, every time I hear about a YC company they seem to brag about the hours they work. Are there numbers about this? A survey of average hours worked in YC startups (ideally separating code / biz time) would be helpful to give people a realistic idea of what they're signing up for when they apply.

Now I'm positive you're trolling. Kudos to you for a troll well executed.

Re: YC is a cult

#124

Post by herdrick »

krschultz wrote: post #89
mechanical_fish wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, in Apollo people died/can die. That is a rather silly criterion. All engineers build things that can kill people if they go wrong. That's what engineers do. You think that social software can't be used to kill people? Do you know the number of people (mostly women) who are murdered each year by stalkers, most of whom are former lovers or spouses? Do you want to bet that none of those stalkers have used, say,…

Apollo engineers make a design mistake, it kills people. If you don't like that because it doesn't effect enough people (Sorry I didn't realize that since Facebook serves 100 million people it is more of a feat than going to the moon) lets talk about Boeing. Boeing makes a design mistake, hundreds of people die. That has happened and will continue to happen. Now you compare that to Facebook - if Facebook or Google go…

I know plenty of Boeing engineers and my impression is that they don't feel that way. Several engineers will be jointly designing that hatch door you mention, and they know there will be plenty of careful review by other engineers of everything they do before their thoughts become matter.

Re: YC is a cult

#125

Post by mattmaroon »

danielharan wrote: post #122
mattmaroon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC doesn't dictate how many hours you work. They aren't project managers or pointy haired bosses. They're investors. Your biggest mistake is taking the blog entry of one startup out of 100 or so that they've funded and assuming that what they do is typical and/or directed by YC.

I wish it were selection bias. Unfortunately, every time I hear about a YC company they seem to brag about the hours they work. Are there numbers about this? A survey of average hours worked in YC startups (ideally separating code / biz time) would be helpful to give people a realistic idea of what they're signing up for when they apply.

No it wouldn't, because again, YC doesn't dictate the hours. You're signing up for whatever you want to sign up for. It's not as if you punch a time card and PG looks at them.

People work so hard because they want to do well on demo day. Other than that one day, I don't know of any way to pitch to all of the top investors in the industry at once. You'd be a fool to not try to maximize your productivity with that in mind.

Re: YC is a cult

#126

Post by stcredzero »

mattmaroon wrote: post #120
stcredzero wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a mother using reverse psychology to motivate her child to do her homework is "ethically manipulative." I think a national leader using lies to lead his country into war is unethically manipulative. I don't yet have a formula for it though.

I don't like that formula, because in both cases the manipulator would think it's for their own good. It's too subjective.

Well, that's why there is no formula! It's a sticky wicket. In the case of the mother and child, in most cases, the mother is correct in thinking it's "for their own good." Also, in that case, there's good reason to believe that the child doesn't know what's best.

So don't try to put any formula in my mouth. I explicitly said I had none!

(It's like porn: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.")

Re: YC is a cult

#127

Post by pg »

paul wrote: post #33

It's sad to see this trollish content rising to the top of news.yc.

I don't think it's as bad as it might seem. I'd rather have this on the frontpage than lolcats or accident pictures. In fact, I think some of the people who upvote or submit things like this do it as a way of keeping News.YC good. They don't want the site to degenerate into an intellectual monoculture. That doesn't mean they necessarily agree with everything it says.

Back in the 1960s, the Communists used to get so many votes in French elections that some people in the US worried the country would align with Russia. But as Laurence Wylie pointed out in Village in the Vaucluse (great book btw), most of the voters didn't actually agree with the Communists' policies. They were just voting for them because they worried that the dominant party was getting too powerful. Really they were voting for diversity.

Re: YC is a cult

#128

Post by sethg »

IMHO (based on my reading, and based on my observations of a certain organization where I went to college), the distinguishing feature of a cult is the exploitation of unanimous peer pressure (cf. the Asch conformity experiment) to make everyone follow one charismatic dictator.

E.g. you give all your money to The Guru because that's what a loyal follower of The Guru does, and all the people you hang out with are loyal followers of The Guru. All the people you hang out with are loyal followers of The Guru because they love you so much and they have so many things for you to do together and go on all these lovely weekend retreats where you are told that if you hang out with someone who's not a loyal follower of The Guru then it would be very bad for your karma.

The unanimity and the single leadership make cults different in kind, and not just different in degree, from other kinds of organized goal-seeking human groups. And I really don't see how the cult model, seen in this way, applies to YC.

Re: YC is a cult

#129

Post by william42 »

Hexstream wrote: post #68
YuriNiyazov wrote: post #7

First there was "All YC startups produce unoriginal second-rate stuff" (unfortunately, I don't have the link handy). Now there's this. It is impressive how YC-hate is evolving.

If you plot its success and the hate it receives on a graph I think you'll see a strong correlation.

If you've read http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/0... you wouldn't be surprised at that.

Re: YC is a cult

#130

Post by adrianwaj »

sethg wrote: post #128

IMHO (based on my reading, and based on my observations of a certain organization where I went to college), the distinguishing feature of a cult is the exploitation of unanimous peer pressure (cf. the Asch conformity experiment) to make everyone follow one charismatic dictator . E.g. you give all your money to The Guru because that's what a loyal follower of The Guru does, and all the people you hang out with are loy…

With over 22000 karma points, (~5000 more than nickb) you could construe that Paul Graham is the cult leader of this board, whereby his words are not just approved, they are also a guide.

If you start disagreeing with PG in a large way, those that like him will scrutinize you and take aim as they may feel they are also being questioned. So there is a slight cultish behaviour going on with this board and maybe with its larger YCombinator fund context, but not intently by PG, he's an investor for the most part.

YCombinator as a 'startup scene' is not a cult because no harm is being done, and the absorption of minds is for the most part very beneficial. Cult leaders, I think take advantage of their own charisma to defray free choice in their environment for their own benefit. All in all, Ycombinator has a culture but is not a cult.

The notion "build something people want" I think is an ideology and ideologies are at the foundations of many cults, but cults generally have spiritual or religious overtones.

Post reply on HN