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Just Launch the Damn Thing

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Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#11

Post by artful-hacker »

Hadrianus wrote: post #2

But also, don't. The world is chock-full of unstable, insecure, incomplete apps, services and technologies. Our desire to be first to market, or to practice extreme continuous improvement via rapid iteration and rapid feedback creates motivations which, in some ways, are antithetical to the moral imperative we as engineers should all feel. That of creating technology that is secure, private and stable. We don't need…

I think you are right, but when you take your time how do you beat the company that just Zooms through, ignoring security, privacy, and stability, eats the entire market share, and leaves the secure, private, and stable apps to fight over scraps?

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#12

Post by ackbar03 »

adamnemecek wrote: post #7

I legit don’t understand what these blog posts hope to accomplish.

The real reason is the drive traffic to their site. You must be new to this. Apparently this is "the" way to drive traffic / growth now, i.e. by writing these sort of short blog posts now. It's the "growth hacking" way. I have a product in the Chinese market so I haven't really used these kinds of marketing techniques. Maybe someone else can chip in how well these methods work in driving traffic and subsequently conversions, I'm genuinely curious as well

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#13

Post by hinkley »

corytheboyd wrote: post #3

Ah yes this discussion. As always, I will chime in saying what I always say. While it's true that you need to begin the iteration process with real customers sooner rather than later, you still have to actually build something for them to use. This is still going to be very hard work. Yes, don't build features nobody has asked for yet, but do completely deliver on at least one core feature that actually makes people…

And when the hype curve gets ahead of your development speed, the internet can be very cruel.

There's a fine line between an MVP and chumming the waters.

Stealth Mode is meant to give you some buffer against competitors who agree with the kernel of your idea and want to copy it. If the idea is obvious, someone else might beat you to market while you're faffing about. If there is no danger of a competitor having the same idea, then customers might not 'get it' either, at which point waiting has cost you a fortune.

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#14

Post by laurent92 »

> When it finally catches up, that bear can take many forms. Running out of money, losing interest, burning out, partners falling out, family or life situations changing, markets shifting and opportunities disappearing… That bear is running out of time.

It’s funny because I read many books and HN posts until I launched 7 years ago, and I was prepared for all situations (including downs) and all went well.

But no-one had told me that one. Fortunately, my startup is my longest streak in a single employment (2.5 max for the other ones, I’m missing recognition in the real world), but now I feel it’s time to enquire how one jumps out of this.

- Intermediaries like Corum Group only accept to help you sell if you are worth 6-30m€ (I’m around there, but, being sole owner, it’s hard to prove a valuation),

- When selling a startup, there are always provision clauses that a lot of liabilities will remain with you. Which defeats the role of an LLC (or equivalent in Europe).

So it’s hard to sell or jump ships.

This is just food for thoughts for the wannabe-entrepreneurs here — but by all means, that was my best professional experience and I had immensely more recognition naked in front of a market than in companies where the boss wouldn’t even coach me into improving myself, apart from “be the best of the team and we may promote you – 9 month later — maybe.”

So: THANK YOU HN!

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#15

Post by corytheboyd »

hinkley wrote: post #13
corytheboyd wrote: post #3

Ah yes this discussion. As always, I will chime in saying what I always say. While it's true that you need to begin the iteration process with real customers sooner rather than later, you still have to actually build something for them to use. This is still going to be very hard work. Yes, don't build features nobody has asked for yet, but do completely deliver on at least one core feature that actually makes people…

And when the hype curve gets ahead of your development speed, the internet can be very cruel. There's a fine line between an MVP and chumming the waters. Stealth Mode is meant to give you some buffer against competitors who agree with the kernel of your idea and want to copy it. If the idea is obvious, someone else might beat you to market while you're faffing about. If there is no danger of a competitor having the s…

I can agree with that for the most part. The only point I don't exactly agree on is putting too much weight on being first to market.

Like you said, being first to market comes with the burden of having to educate the market about what the offering even is, whereas having competition means the market exists already and you won't have to do (as much of) this work.

In the end, there are plenty of examples of best-in-market beating first-to-market, and vice versa. And here we are trying to predict the weather :p

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#16

Post by hinkley »

toast0 wrote: post #6
dabockster wrote: post #4

I prefer the middle ground: do some planning and optimization so I don’t release a freaking PWA monster into the world, then have to stall later while I figure out how to maintain the darn thing.

The point of the article is that stalling later, when you have a better idea or what people want (and maybe some revenue, maybe?) is better than stalling now, when you have no customers. Launching something that clearly nobody will use because it can't do anything is clearly a waste of time still, but if you have something that people will use despite its flaws, maybe it's time to launch.

It's an argument that makes total sense until you see how peers implement that idea.

The fact is we have coworkers who want to appear high brow but not put in the work. So they will espouse a deep belief but then use it to do something else entirely. Or nothing at all.

Stalling, YAGNI, are extremely powerful tools. Maybe not explosives level of power, but perhaps cutting torch. You can get yourself into a lot of trouble with a torch if you do things in the wrong order or skip steps. (Not a welder, but I recently watch Alex Steele, Youtube blacksmith, and his then-partner make the same mistake twice in three weeks - heating a 3 piece assembly with a torch to get pieces 1 and 2 apart/together, could not remove piece 3 afterward due to the heat - expensive teachable moment the first time, but they needed a refresher)

The Fine Art of Stalling is figuring out which Irreversible Decisions you can safely put off until later, when there is more information, and which things you require now regardless of reversibility. You don't stall on Reversible Decisions you need soon. You make them cheap.

Got a bike shed to paint? Budget for five coats of paint in as many colors, pick one at random, and then move the fuck on. Your real job is determining which concrete contractor is certified to lay the base for your nuclear reactor, when you need it laid, the lead time each candidate needs to start the work, and any buffer you want to build in. If that means you don't need to know for another year, then let's keep an eye on those contractors' finances, turnover, and lawsuits, and look at the next thorn in our side, like the shipping company we're using that keeps screwing up.

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#17

Post by laurent92 »

Hadrianus wrote: post #2

But also, don't. The world is chock-full of unstable, insecure, incomplete apps, services and technologies. Our desire to be first to market, or to practice extreme continuous improvement via rapid iteration and rapid feedback creates motivations which, in some ways, are antithetical to the moral imperative we as engineers should all feel. That of creating technology that is secure, private and stable. We don't need…

Internet is a Kondratieff cycle: It’s a long economic cycle. 40+ years.

- At the beginning, you innovate, and there are 100 car manufacturers in your city (Lyon, France) and every employee can build a car from A to Z.

- Then you mature. You need to build the petrol station in every corner of the city, and put pollution everywhere especially on cathedrals (and passwords spill all over the place). Employees have a scope and become replaceable, but at least it’s a skill that _can_ be taught at school so you build schools to output a nation’s worth of engineers, not PhDs.

- Then it concentrates. You still make more and more cars every year, but legal requirements rise and less than a dozen manufacturers per continent make it, it is extremely capital-intensive and return on investment is around the interest rate. Employees have a mundane job, there is even a job description, which would be an insult to most of the previous generation.

- Then global warming comes and you need to remove petrol stations and cheat on tests to prove that you comply to regulatory emissions.

Startups are at phase 2. Regulatory burden is so immense that the only way to comply to SOCs/PII/Health/GDPR requirements is to build inside of AWS. The job is becoming 1. either work for Atlasssian or Amazon 2. or be independent and built a toy inside their containers, with pre-approved APIs that insurances cover you for.

Your comment is a sign that we’re entering phase 3: It’s hard to launch a startup and comply by the correct security and redundancy requirements, the talent has to be great, funding is absolutely necessary to have enough lawyers and designers, it’s capital intensive but still has excellent potential growth.

But soon, launching a startup will be as hard as launching a clothing brand: You’ll need support from stars to get famous, advertising power of the soap industry, and you’ll only make 4% above market rate.

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#18

Post by hinkley »

corytheboyd wrote: post #15
hinkley wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when the hype curve gets ahead of your development speed, the internet can be very cruel. There's a fine line between an MVP and chumming the waters. Stealth Mode is meant to give you some buffer against competitors who agree with the kernel of your idea and want to copy it. If the idea is obvious, someone else might beat you to market while you're faffing about. If there is no danger of a competitor having the s…

I can agree with that for the most part. The only point I don't exactly agree on is putting too much weight on being first to market. Like you said, being first to market comes with the burden of having to educate the market about what the offering even is, whereas having competition means the market exists already and you won't have to do (as much of) this work. In the end, there are plenty of examples of best-in-ma…

I'm not a big fan of first to market myself, but it does seem to get some people to pay attention, so I'm not afraid of dangling that carrot if it suits me.

Feedback is important. It's not the only thing that's important, but it's important. Sitting on a bunch of dark code means you won't get any feedback, and when you do get it, it won't be usable (too late to reverse course).

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#19

Post by tjs8rj »

artful-hacker wrote: post #11
Hadrianus wrote: post #2

But also, don't. The world is chock-full of unstable, insecure, incomplete apps, services and technologies. Our desire to be first to market, or to practice extreme continuous improvement via rapid iteration and rapid feedback creates motivations which, in some ways, are antithetical to the moral imperative we as engineers should all feel. That of creating technology that is secure, private and stable. We don't need…

I think you are right, but when you take your time how do you beat the company that just Zooms through, ignoring security, privacy, and stability, eats the entire market share, and leaves the secure, private, and stable apps to fight over scraps?

I think a major consideration is building what matters. Clearly, evidenced by Zooms continued dominance in spite of these scandals, these privacy issues aren’t breaking to customers.

While obviously not moral, the current environment seems to reward “get big fast, then take a breath to clean up the mess before other catch up”, by then the damage to many has already been done, but your company is huge and ate the rest.

Re: Just Launch the Damn Thing

#20

Post by whitepoplar »

laurent92 wrote: post #14

> When it finally catches up, that bear can take many forms. Running out of money, losing interest, burning out, partners falling out, family or life situations changing, markets shifting and opportunities disappearing… That bear is running out of time. It’s funny because I read many books and HN posts until I launched 7 years ago, and I was prepared for all situations (including downs) and all went well. But no-one…

Definitely a good point! Would you be willing to share what company you started?
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