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Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

economist.com

21–30 of 257 posts

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#21
post #8

Well, I stopped reading when it said that Federer ”has been choking” , losing due to a ”mental frailty” . It told me everything I need to know that there is nothing serious to be read and learned in this article.

When the article was written Federer had lost to Djokovic after having 2 match points on two seperate occsasions (US Open 2010 and 2011) and since then this has happened again at Wimbledon 2019. In that last two matches Federer was serving as well. It's hard to make the argument that this isn't psychological.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, that's not at all what it's about. In tech, the issue being discussed is closer to what's commonly termed "analysis paralysis". Sometimes you just have to act on your instincts (honed by experience, knowledge, and study) and act rather than looking for a larger pattern or perfect solution.

I read the article and I don’t like the headline’s framing. Choking also can be the result of being overwhelmed because of a lack of mental preparation. Thanks for your reply.

"This last point is vital. Unthinking is not the same as ignorance; you can’t unthink if you haven’t already thought. Djokovic was able to pull off his wonder shot because he had played a thousand variations on it in previous matches and practice; Dylan’s lyrical outpourings drew on his immersion in folk songs, French poetry and American legends. The unconscious minds of great artists and sportsmen are like dense rainforests, which send up spores of inspiration."

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#23
post #8

Well, I stopped reading when it said that Federer ”has been choking” , losing due to a ”mental frailty” . It told me everything I need to know that there is nothing serious to be read and learned in this article.

When the article was written Federer had lost to Djokovic after having 2 match points on two seperate occsasions (US Open 2010 and 2011) and since then this has happened again at Wimbledon 2019. In that last two matches Federer was serving as well. It's hard to make the argument that this isn't psychological.

For me is veeery easy to make the argument that this isn’t psychological, but only to the expected variance of tennis match results. It was you that had to carefully cherry-pick data to support your conclusion.

I would only have to choose among all the other match points he has won through the 20 grand slams he has won. Only considering Federer vs Djoko, Federer won 46% of the matches. There a lot of match points won there. Also, considering only Grand Slams, Federer won 6 out of 17. Not a great record, but still no negligible number of wins. And I would attribute that bad performance more to Djoko skills, and maybe also Djoko physical peak coinciding with Federer older age, than to any thing psychological.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#24
post #8

Well, I stopped reading when it said that Federer ”has been choking” , losing due to a ”mental frailty” . It told me everything I need to know that there is nothing serious to be read and learned in this article.

When the article was written Federer had lost to Djokovic after having 2 match points on two seperate occsasions (US Open 2010 and 2011) and since then this has happened again at Wimbledon 2019. In that last two matches Federer was serving as well. It's hard to make the argument that this isn't psychological.

djokovic was already an extremely strong (mentally, physically, and technically) player himself at that time. he finished the 2011 season no. 1 IIRC.

the "mental toughness" argument cuts both ways. pulling out a win after two match points in a grand slam speaks as much to djokovic's own mental fortitude as it does to federer's lack thereof.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#25
"The only reliable cure for overthinking seems to be enjoyment, something that both success and analysis can dull." This point at the end seems a bit forced without any support beyond the author's assertion. The feeling I get is someone who has mastered this unthinking is "enlightened" of sorts with an ability to get to satisfaction with a humility that can be mistaken for smugness.

From fiction, I might refer to the Wheel of Time series where Rand Al'Thor uses a trick to "find the void" in a way his father taught him. When you get overwhelmed from information and emotions, finding the void allows you to regain composure and think straight again.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#26

You might learn to think for yourself and that would be bad for us.

I thought this way for many years. Confronting the fact that thoughts carry a cost, and are therefore a tradeoff that has to be weighed against their usefulness in any given case, was the biggest turning point for the better my mental health has ever taken.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#27
> The only reliable cure for overthinking seems to be enjoyment

However, enjoyment in a high-stake situation is too hard to achieve. For people like actors, athletes and musicians, confidence generated through enough practice seems to be the cure. Enjoyment is an aftereffect. For situations for which you have no way to practice, enjoyment just seems hard.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#28
post #2

It would be nice if the submitter posted a non-pay walled link.

Some interesting bits from the article:

"In less dramatic ways the same principle applies to all of us. A fundamental paradox of human psychology is that thinking can be bad for us. When we follow our own thoughts too closely, we can lose our bearings, as our inner chatter drowns out common sense."

"To make good decisions in a complex world, Gigerenzer says, you have to be skilled at ignoring information. He found that a portfolio of stocks picked by people he interviewed in the street did better than those chosen by experts. The pedestrians were using the “recognition heuristic”: they picked companies they’d heard of, which was a better guide to future success than any analysis of price-earning ratios."

"How do you learn to unthink? Dylan believes the creative impulse needs protecting from self-analysis: “As you get older, you get smarter, and that can hinder you…You’ve got to programme your brain not to think too much.” Flann O’Brien said we should be “calculatedly stupid” in order to write. The only reliable cure for overthinking seems to be enjoyment, something that both success and analysis can dull. Experienced athletes and artists often complain that they have lost touch with what made them love what they do in the first place. Thinking about it is a poor substitute."

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#30

> The only reliable cure for overthinking seems to be enjoyment However, enjoyment in a high-stake situation is too hard to achieve. For people like actors, athletes and musicians, confidence generated through enough practice seems to be the cure. Enjoyment is an aftereffect. For situations for which you have no way to practice, enjoyment just seems hard.

If you’re playing an instrument in front of an audience, performance anxiety will usually make things much worse than if you had practiced in private.
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