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John McWhorter: The Neoracists

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Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#151

Post by lisper »

screye wrote: post #148
lisper wrote: post #2

It is important to note that this article was written by a black man, a contributing editor to The Atlantic. John McWhorter is not a MAGA hack. That being said... This article is the very definition of a straw man. Absolutely no one subscribes to the position it critiques. On the other hand, a fair number of people (including myself) subscribe to the position that, although things are not nearly as bad as they have b…

I return your claim of an infamous intellectual fallacy with another. The 'Motte-and_bailey'. IE. A large sub-section of the community advances this exact strawman, while retreating to a conventionally accepted meaning of racism when truly challenged. I'll address the biggest names that have risen during this new movement. Kendi's and DiAngelo's books are written exactly as McWhorter puts it. Coates's is more heartfe…

> Aren't you strawmanning John now?

Probably. I have a hard time remaining completely dispassionate about this.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#152

Post by dandersh »

wilsocr88 wrote: post #41

The angle nobody ever mentions on this issue is that nothing mass-produces racism and extremist political views more than treating an entire generation of young men as though they are automatically racist, regardless of their actions, or lack of action. Most people under 40 right now were raised to be completely ready to forget about race and treat it like a non-issue. In response, a lot of well-intentioned and non-b…

They don't mention it because it's not true and an obvious rationalization for already existing behavior.

Sorry but throwing the N word around and casual racism existed before social media.

The "I'm not the racist you are" is childish and unfortunately par for the course in online discourse now.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#153

Post by sradman »

sradman wrote: post #128

John McWhorter [1], together with economist Glenn Loury [2], describe themselves as the black wing of the Intellectual Dark Web (IDW) [3]. One can argue that he and Steven Pinker make up the linguistic wing of the IDW and both are cultural treasures. This article is an excerpt from his new (release date?) book, The Elect: Neoracists Posing as Antiracists and their Threat to a Progressive America . [1] https://en.wiki…

Explaining the title The Elect:

> One more thing: We need a crisper label for the problematic folk. I will not title them “Social Justice Warriors.” That, and other labels such as “the Woke Mob” are unsuitably dismissive. One of the key insights I hope to get across is that most of these people are not zealots.

> The author and essayist Joseph Bottum has found the proper term, and I will adopt it here: We will term these people The Elect.

I prefer the term Social Justice Activists.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#154

Post by rglover »

seibelj wrote: post #5

Eventually people will realize that the best way to treat others is identically no matter the color of their skin. That used to be an uncontroversial viewpoint but it’s dangerous to say that now!

It's a mind blow to see this comment being downvoted. Literally what Martin Luther King, Jr. preached (and correctly, so).

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#155

Post by slowmovintarget »

klmadfejno wrote: post #52
readtfa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously didn't read the article if you think it's a straw man. He quotes Ibrahim Kendi, funded by Jack Dorsey as an exemplar of the new faith. If Dorsey and Kendi aren't mainstream, just to start, I don't know what is. I'm so tired of getting gaslit about this. My opinion on neoracism is the reason I am posting with a throwaway. Thank you John Worter for helping to rebrand so-called "Antiracism" to what it real…

I see 10 tenets that are extremely disagreeable posed as a mainstream ideology, and as far as I can tell, he just made them up. So he can fuck off, imo. I don't especially like Kendi. Here's what he says about kendi in the article though. > Ibram X. Kendi has written a book on how to raise antiracist children called Antiracist Baby. ... That's it. He says he wrote a book called Antiracist Baby. That name drop does no…

At work, there are emails going around that list all of those tenets. How to apologize, how one should not speak unless one is "appropriately diverse," how one should believe in their own guilt or victim-hood.

This email (unofficial) has the title "How to Be Antiracist." The only thing McWhorter did was to reorder the bullets, putting some next to each other.

None of those are made up.

The very next sentences after your quote discusses the book. The next paragraph also says this:

> Talking of Antiracist Baby, I am especially dismayed at the idea of this indoctrination infecting my daughters’ sense of self. I can’t always be with them, and this anti-humanist ideology may seep into their school curriculum. I shudder at the thought: teachers with eyes shining at the prospect of showing their antiracism by teaching my daughters that they are poster children rather than individuals.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#156

Post by dang »

readtfa wrote: post #22
lisper wrote: post #2

It is important to note that this article was written by a black man, a contributing editor to The Atlantic. John McWhorter is not a MAGA hack. That being said... This article is the very definition of a straw man. Absolutely no one subscribes to the position it critiques. On the other hand, a fair number of people (including myself) subscribe to the position that, although things are not nearly as bad as they have b…

You obviously didn't read the article if you think it's a straw man. He quotes Ibrahim Kendi, funded by Jack Dorsey as an exemplar of the new faith. If Dorsey and Kendi aren't mainstream, just to start, I don't know what is. I'm so tired of getting gaslit about this. My opinion on neoracism is the reason I am posting with a throwaway. Thank you John Worter for helping to rebrand so-called "Antiracism" to what it real…

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Most commenters in this thread have done a good job—a surprisingly good job—of staying in communication with each other across this divide. Your comment here is a noticeable step into hell. Please step the other way while on this site.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful. In addition to the flamewar aspect, "you obviously didn't read the article [etc.]" is explicitly against the rules.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#157

Post by dang »

klmadfejno wrote: post #52
readtfa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously didn't read the article if you think it's a straw man. He quotes Ibrahim Kendi, funded by Jack Dorsey as an exemplar of the new faith. If Dorsey and Kendi aren't mainstream, just to start, I don't know what is. I'm so tired of getting gaslit about this. My opinion on neoracism is the reason I am posting with a throwaway. Thank you John Worter for helping to rebrand so-called "Antiracism" to what it real…

I see 10 tenets that are extremely disagreeable posed as a mainstream ideology, and as far as I can tell, he just made them up. So he can fuck off, imo. I don't especially like Kendi. Here's what he says about kendi in the article though. > Ibram X. Kendi has written a book on how to raise antiracist children called Antiracist Baby. ... That's it. He says he wrote a book called Antiracist Baby. That name drop does no…

> So he can fuck off, imo

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#158

Post by dang »

omginternets wrote: post #132
lisper wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Better yet, read them! They answer your question. What question is that? I don't see how reading these books could possibly persuade me of anything other than there are two people who espouse some overly extreme ideas with regards to racism. And I will happily concede that without reading them. So I was wrong when I said that "absolutely no one" believes this crap. Two people believe it. Maybe even 100. Maybe even…

>But McWhorter claims that third-wave anti-racism is mainstream (his word) and so far I have seen zero evidence of that. Read the damn books if you actually care.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. There's no information here, just a swipe.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#159

Post by runako »

nate_meurer wrote: post #145
runako wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got that but the problem is that caricature is only presented in some views of pop culture. The Obamas, Kamala Harris, Beyonce, Viola Davis, and Chadwick Boseman are pop culture. Anyone who chooses to present the pop culture caricature described by McWhorter is making a racially-guided editorial decision.

Do you feel that his article is strawmanning the antiracist movement?

Yes.

The most powerful part of the current antiracist movement is the Congressmembers and members of the current administration who are working on the systemic apparatus, for example by promoting a new Voting Rights Act. (Indeed, there is a certain obliqueness in his references to "The Elect" as a group of people while ignoring the role of elected officials. This, as over 100 bills wind through legislatures with the singular goal of reducing voting access for minority groups.)

McWhorter ignores the policy arm that makes a real difference in the lives of tens of millions in favor of elevating the critiques of a very narrow set of people. I can go the rest of my life without interacting with The Elect, but the laws this 116th Congress enacts me may follow me the rest of my life.

By elevating The Elect to a position they do not occupy outside of small niche areas like academia, McWhorter creates a straw man that he then proceeds to tear down. It's a pretty weak argument for an academic of his intellect to make.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#160

Post by neonate »

lisper wrote: post #137
Digory wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of the ten are not mainstream? Surely you agree some are held by significant numbers of people. Take his #3 for example. You haven’t heard people claiming “Silence is violence?” While decrying the Karens’ inability to just listen?

> You’d deny there are a significant number of people who believe three, for example? "Silence about racism is violence." Yes, I am highly skeptical that a significant number of people profess to believe this. It sounds like clear hyperbole to me.

The slogan "Silence is violence" was all over 2020. We must move in different circles.
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