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YC is a cult

danielharan.com

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Re: YC is a cult

#111

Post by danielharan »

icey wrote: post #109
danielharan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you condone working such long hours that founders are routinely sleep deprived?

If you're going to troll, I want disclosure. How many times have you applied to YC and been rejected?

Never applied, although encouraged others to do so.

If people working insanely long hours is actually mythology, that actually hurts YC: sane people will avoid applying in the first place.

If the long hours is really true, then people aren't being productive, also hurting YC.

Either way, call me a troll but this is something YC should be making clear.

Re: YC is a cult

#112

Post by echair »

ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #76
pc wrote: post #12

- People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations; - Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized; - They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic; [sic] - They get a new identity based on the group; - They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information…

This is probably the best thread for this question, what is with all these pc, lg, pd (two letter, pg lookalike)usernames? Are you trying to be like him? Or hoping that a not-so-attentive user will read you and or vote you up because of that nickname? There seem to be way more than I see elsewhere, so I don't think abbreviating based on the first and last names is the only explanation.

It's just the classic hacker username convention: rms, jmc, rtm, pg, gls, esr, tlb.

Re: YC is a cult

#113

Post by mechanical_fish »

pg wrote: post #107
krschultz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apollo engineers make a design mistake, it kills people. If you don't like that because it doesn't effect enough people (Sorry I didn't realize that since Facebook serves 100 million people it is more of a feat than going to the moon) lets talk about Boeing. Boeing makes a design mistake, hundreds of people die. That has happened and will continue to happen. Now you compare that to Facebook - if Facebook or Google go…

I think the test of the importance of your work is not how much people will be hurt if you screw up, but how much people's lives are improved if you succeed. Some of the most important work is done by people working quietly on mundane problems. Judged by the standard of how much it contributes to people's well-being, Google probably does more for the world than the Apollo missions did.

Some of the most important work is done by people working quietly on mundane problems.

For some reason, this excellent comment reminds me of my visit to the sewers of Paris (they've got a museum down there!)

There's a quote from Napoleon in which he proclaimed that the redesign of the Parisian sewer system (which was commissioned during his reign) was one of the most important things he ever did. It's surprisingly hard to argue with that.

Re: YC is a cult

#114

Post by gojomo »

staunch wrote: post #103
danielharan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you condone working such long hours that founders are routinely sleep deprived?

"Even during Viaweb I still slept 8 hours a night (roughly 3-11). The most productive people rarely have more than 6 hours or so of really concentrated work per day, except in emergencies. If you can ensure you get that every day, you don't need to economize on sleep..." -- by pg 358 days ago http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39778

So Say We All.

Re: YC is a cult

#115

Post by jmatt »

pg wrote: post #107
krschultz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apollo engineers make a design mistake, it kills people. If you don't like that because it doesn't effect enough people (Sorry I didn't realize that since Facebook serves 100 million people it is more of a feat than going to the moon) lets talk about Boeing. Boeing makes a design mistake, hundreds of people die. That has happened and will continue to happen. Now you compare that to Facebook - if Facebook or Google go…

I think the test of the importance of your work is not how much people will be hurt if you screw up, but how much people's lives are improved if you succeed. Some of the most important work is done by people working quietly on mundane problems. Judged by the standard of how much it contributes to people's well-being, Google probably does more for the world than the Apollo missions did.

Ok PG's response seems almost like flamebait. I had to respond and try to voice my disagreement.

I think the test of the importance of your work is not how much people will be hurt if you screw up, but how much people's lives are improved if you succeed.

I notice you leave out the Manhattan Project. Through which nuclear power was discovered. And later those same researchers discovered Quantum Electrodynamics... which will likely be the next hardware solution for computer science.

Judged by the standard of how much it contributes to people's well-being, Google probably does more for the world than the Apollo missions did.

As for Apollo versus Google - come on. Search (PageRank) & improved web mail (GMail) versus safe commercial air travel, radio and satellite communication, safe structures, better roads, GPS, etc. Maybe there weren't advancements to Computer Science. But, there were major advancements in civil, construction, electrical and mechanical engineering.

The program spurred advances in many areas of technology peripheral to rocketry and manned spaceflight. These include major contributions in the fields of avionics, telecommunications, and computers. The program sparked interest in many fields of engineering, including pioneering work using statistical methods to study the reliability of complex systems made from component parts. The physical facilities and machines which were necessary components of the manned spaceflight program remain as landmarks of civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program

Separately the Apollo program had a cultural impact on the students and engineers of the time and even today. I know I am inspired by what the program did with such limited technology.

[EDIT: Some details and another quote]

Re: YC is a cult

#116

Post by mattmaroon »

danielharan wrote: post #69
mattmaroon wrote: post #2

Hilarious. Blatant linkbait, but hilarious. Clearly he does not know many actual participants. Working 18 hour days for two months is not the norm.

Thank you :) So, what exactly is the norm? What we hear from blog entries and the like is that you're all working from the time you get up to the time you fall asleep clutching your laptops.

Well, the norm is clearly working very hard for two and a half months before demo day. But most people realize that working past a certain number is counterproductive. I don't know exactly what that number is, but it's below 18 per day for sure. I'd say we probably worked 70-80 hour weeks.

Re: YC is a cult

#117

Post by mattmaroon »

danielharan wrote: post #111
icey wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to troll, I want disclosure. How many times have you applied to YC and been rejected?

Never applied, although encouraged others to do so. If people working insanely long hours is actually mythology, that actually hurts YC: sane people will avoid applying in the first place. If the long hours is really true, then people aren't being productive, also hurting YC. Either way, call me a troll but this is something YC should be making clear.

YC doesn't dictate how many hours you work. They aren't project managers or pointy haired bosses. They're investors.

Your biggest mistake is taking the blog entry of one startup out of 100 or so that they've funded and assuming that what they do is typical and/or directed by YC.

Re: YC is a cult

#118

Post by pg »

KirinDave wrote: post #93

I guess maybe I'd be more concerned about this accusation if YC wasn't one of the smaller players in the space. Simply put, people will go and make bad and self-harming decisions all the time (god knows I've done it), it's a constant. If YC is an unhealthy environment–and I see no evidence that it is, but perhaps the kool-aid is in my brain–then it's a relatively small one. I mean, most people here realize they don't…

It's more of a publicity stunt for a new startup than a real viable path to large-scale funding

Of the 80 startups prior to the current cycle (who haven't had Demo Day yet), I believe 14 have raised series A rounds so far. Probably the same number again could have if they wanted to, but either didn't want to raise that much money, or got acquired first.

Re: YC is a cult

#119

Post by icey »

danielharan wrote: post #111
icey wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to troll, I want disclosure. How many times have you applied to YC and been rejected?

Never applied, although encouraged others to do so. If people working insanely long hours is actually mythology, that actually hurts YC: sane people will avoid applying in the first place. If the long hours is really true, then people aren't being productive, also hurting YC. Either way, call me a troll but this is something YC should be making clear.

This isn't a YC thing. This is a startup thing. Startups work a lot of hours, it's the nature of the beast. By being as accusatory as you've been, you've highlighted your inexperience with startups in general.

Re: YC is a cult

#120

Post by mattmaroon »

stcredzero wrote: post #85
danielharan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unethically manipulative"!? WTF is that?

I think that a mother using reverse psychology to motivate her child to do her homework is "ethically manipulative." I think a national leader using lies to lead his country into war is unethically manipulative. I don't yet have a formula for it though.

I don't like that formula, because in both cases the manipulator would think it's for their own good. It's too subjective.
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