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John McWhorter: The Neoracists

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101–110 of 261 posts

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#101
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite hard to come up with reliable statistics for police killings in the US. It's not that deaths aren't counted, it's that they're misclassified. > Feldman used data from the Guardian’s 2015 investigation into police killings, The Counted, and compared it with data from the National Vital Statistics System (NVSS). That dataset, which is kept by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), was found to…

Seems hard to make an argument either for or against racial disparities in police shootings then, if the data is unreliable. In which case the answer is to not make assumptions, but collect better data. A lot of people seem to take the approach of: the data's good if it says what I want; if it doesn't, it's probably wrong.

Hard doesn't mean impossible. There's been a lot of good reporting on this in the last half-decade. But it's required sustained effort from journalists, and insofar as statistics are getting better, it's not because the US has become more first-worldier than it was.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#102
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two passages jumped out at me as relevant not just generally, but potentially valuable to wokeists here at HN. >Black people are a conglomeration of disparate individuals. “Black culture” is code for “pathological, primitive ghetto people.” But don’t expect black people to assimilate to “white” social norms because black people have a culture of their own. >I write this viscerally driven by the fact that all of this…

> “Black culture” is code for “pathological, primitive ghetto people.” That's the dumbest, most offensive thing I've read in quite a while. Perhaps among a certain set of people that is true (call those people "racists" as shorthand). But as an actual Black person, it's ridiculously offensive to define "Black culture" that way. > white people calling themselves our _saviors_ make black people look like the dumbest, w…

In my reading of the article, (not sure if you've had the pleasure) McWharton was describing the caricature that is presented in pop culture.

Yes, I find the savior complex condescending and dismissive of individual agency.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#103
post #77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then, with respect, you are not listening to and understanding the people to the left of you. They deny that there is a mere undercurrent of latent intentional bigotry by those in power (racism). Rather, they affirm that America is a system of power and social relations that keep the underclass just as effectively subjugated as slavery, without the need for intentional bigotry. And they intend to undo it. George Wash…

Reference(s)?

I don't see the point. You're already ignoring the ones FTA.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#105
post #67
post #2

It is important to note that this article was written by a black man, a contributing editor to The Atlantic. John McWhorter is not a MAGA hack. That being said... This article is the very definition of a straw man. Absolutely no one subscribes to the position it critiques. On the other hand, a fair number of people (including myself) subscribe to the position that, although things are not nearly as bad as they have b…

Indeed the strawman is so huge it is tempting to translate the purported 10-tenet list into what reasonable people may actually believe. > 1. When black people say you have insulted them, apologize with profound sincerity and guilt. But don’t put black people in a position where you expect them to forgive you. Yeah, indeed if anyone feels insulted it's quite a natural first reaction to apologize. On the other hand, u…

>> 5. Show interest in multiculturalism. But do not culturally appropriate.

> Oh come on. All people ask is things like: don't do blackface, it's dumb. Like dressing up as an SS. Fully legal, as it should be, but really dumb.

I saw this document[1] making the rounds on twitter recently. Do you think the proposals in the document are good ones that all people should adhere to, or do you think they are completely ridiculous and worthy of ridicule? Or somewhere in between? I'm specifically speaking of the AAVE section.

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1Ioy3CDX_iR75DNJwvz7f...

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His arguments read exactly the same as Clarence Thomas’ on race and African Americans - to paraphrase a recent biography “that life is too easy for them and we are coddling them”.

Can you provide a few McWhorter quotes to that effect? Thanks!

Some Clarence Thomas quotes would be nice too, preferably with context.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#107
Casting the trend as a religion is rather the humanist thing to do of course so I'll just ignore that useless categorization

Systemic racism is real, but if you're just looking at Twitter and headlines you'll never pierce the insight that its anonymous network of individual behaviors that, at scale, have real effects; this is no different than thinking about the economy, which we're perfectly comfortable with as a reification of the tremendous graph of individual behaviors.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#108
> I am not writing this thinking of right-wing America as my audience. I will make no appearances on any Fox News program to promote it. People of that world are welcome to listen in. But I write this to two segments of the American populace. Both are what I consider to be my people, which is what worries me so much about what is going on. One segment is the New York Times-reading, National Public Radio-listening people of any color who have innocently fallen under the impression that pious, unempirical virtue-signaling about race is a form of moral enlightenment and political activism, and ever teeter upon becoming card-carrying Third Wave Antiracists themselves. The other is those black people who have innocently fallen under the misimpression that for us only, cries of weakness constitute a kind of strength, and that for us only, what makes us interesting, what makes us matter, is a curated persona as eternally victimized souls, ever carrying and defined by the memories and injuries of our people across four centuries behind us, ever “unrecognized,” ever “misunderstood,” ever unpaid.

I think this is key to understanding this article, and perhaps he should have led with it.

I tend to think of myself as a "classical liberal" in the sense that I value freedom, and that I believe that tolerance and freedom of expression are foundational to a healthy democratic society.

I think the "thought police" aspect of what McWhorter calls "third wave antiracism" is concerning. It reminds me of McCarthyism, and I have imagined that this is unsustainable and will eventually dissipate. But of course, that is not guaranteed.

> However, they and everyone else should also realize: I know quite well that white readers will be more likely to hear out views like this when written by a black person, and consider it nothing less than my duty as a black person to write it.

I think this is correct as well. It seems right to be that we should primarily be looking to people from the black community as thought leaders on these issues. Their debate, based in first-hand experience, is more interesting and noteworthy to me.

McWhorter also contributes to a group called 1776 Unites (https://1776unites.com), which is a group of black leaders and scholars generally writing counter narratives to the mainstream, or what McWhorter has called "third wave antiracism." Again, as a "classical liberal," I find their ideas worth considering.

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A side note, I have a copy of McWhorter's book "Words on the Move," and I highly recommend it :)

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#109
post #31

Question, because I dont know. Do identity politics help or hurt racism? My knee jerk reaction is that is highlights differences and can cause folks to dig their heels in on issues surrounding race/gender/sexuality/ . However pretending that all of these sorts of differences dont exist seems a bit naive at best and boneheaded at worst. What is the path forward? How do you integrate different races/cultures/etc in a t…

From a european perspective there is currently no nation more divided that the USA in terms of culture and politics.

In france, equality means making nation-wide republican programs where everyone should be treated the same at all part of society. This is a bottom up approach.

In this US, equality means there are grants for women, black, disabled, asians, mulims, jews, blinds, deafs, natives... and pretty much none for white people. Or it's Positive Discrimination. Pretty much everyone is doing stuff for its own group, AGAINST the other groups...

The people (democrats) pretending to fight for equality are just fighting for SPECIFIC MINORITIES all the time. No wonder people voted trump.. at least he was a honest asshole.

Re: John McWhorter: The Neoracists

#110
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reference(s)?

I don't see the point. You're already ignoring the ones FTA.

There are two references in the TFA. Both of them are books. I haven't read them, so I will concede that these two books endorse the point of view being described.

However, McWhorter makes the claim that third-wave racism is mainstream. The existence of two books endorsing a point of view is not evidence that this point of view is mainstream, or even widespread. If it were, then flat-eartherism would be mainstream.

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