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Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

psyche.co

81–90 of 242 posts

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#81

As somebody who makes a living "as a philosopher" in areas that overlap with CS, decision making, logic, AI and appear to be more scientific in nature, I may find this article emotionally somewhat appealing but still don't think it's a useful view about philosophy. The first and foremost thing about philosophy laymen should realize is that the vast majority of philosophers do not consider philosophy a science. They a…

> These disciplines have overall lower standards in comparison to philosophy and often make unfounded empirical claims based on qualitative studies or studies with way too small sample size.

Unfortunately, I found even the standards in philosophy as a field to be quite low, which is why I stopped pursuing its study in an academic setting. But, yes, I think many people have noted that there are particular fields in the social sciences which are mostly BS, partly because those fields are heavily based on ideas that use pseudo-philosophy as their foundational basis.

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#82
> Harris’s failure to grasp the content of many of the philosophical claims and arguments that he criticises > Lawrence Krauss engages with philosophical arguments for theism without understanding them properly. Most saliently, he ends up criticising a caricature version of the so-called cosmological argument about the existence of God.

Haha. Sorry. So you are the only one who understands all of it all.

> What makes pseudoscientific beliefs deficient is that they’re formed in an epistemically unconscientious way. That’s to say, these beliefs are made from culpably confused and uninformed reasoning. For example, the belief that the Earth is flat can be sustained only by self-willed disregard of the massive amounts of evidence to the contrary, accumulated over several centuries by several different sciences.

The Earth is flat. Tangentially where differentiable. :)

> There are two kinds of pseudophilosophy, one mostly harmless and the other insidious. The first variety is usually found in popular scientific contexts. This is where writers, typically with a background in the natural sciences, walk self-confidently into philosophical territory without realising it, and without conscientious attention to relevant philosophical distinctions and arguments. Often implicit empiricist assumptions in epistemology, metaphysics and the philosophy of language are relied upon as if they were self-evident, and without awareness of the threat that those very assumptions pose to the author’s own reasoning. We can call this phenomenon scientistic pseudophilosophy.

What were your assumptions when you said the Earth isn’t flat then?

I stopped reading here. I can’t stand more crap. You’re way too overestimating your level.

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#83

Reality is subjective and so should philosophy be. Nobody knows what is going on here and anyone that thinks they do is lying. What is right for me may not be right for you. Learn what is right for you through trial and error. Failure is the best teacher to find out something will not work. Nobody should follow anyone else. You should be the leader of your own life as it is your experience. The goal is not self indul…

I must disagree with almost everything.

> Reality is subjective and so should philosophy be.

There is no reason to believe reality is subjective. If it was, why would you appeal to a shared, objective reality to convince us otherwise? Even if it was, that still wouldn't mean that philosophy "should" be. Declaring what something "is" doesn't show you how it "ought" to be.

> Nobody knows what is going on here and anyone that thinks they do is lying.

Of course nobody has a perfect knowledge of it all, so lets not pretend this is an "all or nothing" deal. There are an awfully lot of well informed people who have learned quite a bit about the human experience, better and worse ways of navigating through life, and take great pleasure in sharing that hard-earned knowledge.

> What is right for me may not be right for you. Learn what is right for you through trial and error.

You mean you like vanilla and I like chocolate, right? Or do you mean to say for one person it can be legitimately "right" to exploit others (emotionally, economically, whatever) so long as their experiences affirm it to them?

> Failure is the best teacher to find out something will not work.

No, finding and learning from good teachers (and/or those who already made some mistakes) are the best teachers. Failure is necessary, as there is no trying without failure, but it is not inherently a superior model for learning.

> Nobody should follow anyone else. You should be the leader of your own life as it is your experience.

Of course at the end of the day you need to build and put trust in yourself as the architect of your own life, but attempting to do that without ever following and emulating others you admire (friends, families, figureheads, and even celebrities) is pure folly.

> The goal is not self indulgent thinking, the goal is to stop thinking.

This is an awful lot of thinking to convince people to not think. Is this also not self-indulgent? Every statement is about "you, your experience, your subjective reality" and push you to close yourself off from working with others to figure life out.

> To go with the flow.

How do you both discount having faith in others to support you (e.g. nobody knows, learn whats right for you, nobody should follow) and go with the flow?

> To trust in yourself and believe that you can do what you set your mind to. To remove the fear of I cant and the fear of failure.

Amen! The worst part of thinking you can't and that its not worth trying is that you might just convince yourself you're right and created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

> It is as simple as that, no philosopher or book can tell you that. Only experience can.

I'm afraid I must revert to disagreeing. Philosophers (both the kind who call themselves that and those who are too practical to don such a title) and books can create worlds and scenarios that challenge us intellectually and emotionally to question the current boundaries of what to accept and reach for in life.

> You can read all the books in the world, but you do not gain any true understanding until you put words into action and actually experience it.

Amen again! As Hamlet said "My words fly up, my thoughts remain below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go.". All the ideas and dreams in the world are useless until to attempt to put them into action.

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#84
post #53

> There are two kinds of pseudophilosophy, one mostly harmless and the other insidious. The first variety is usually found in popular scientific contexts. This is where writers, typically with a background in the natural sciences, walk self-confidently into philosophical territory without realising it, and without conscientious attention to relevant philosophical distinctions and arguments. Often implicit empiricist…

One smart aleck but serious question - what precisely makes the naive scientific distinctions wrong compared to the philsophical argument?

It is overly literal and somewhat unimaginative to immediately answer theship of Theseus with "Did it sink or wind up disassembled in whole? If not then it is the same ship." But it is a consistent philosophical framework - it never was destroyed so therefore it is the same ship.

Is it convention and semantic akin to say "literally" being used as figuratively? While clearly bad for cross communication and a reciepe for confusion self-consitency is all that is needed for within subset communication even if it leads to cringeworthy constructs like "he actually literally exploded" for what was previously just "he literally exploded".

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#85
While "critical thinking skills" are great in principle, empirically they are invoked almost exclusively by people practicing their very own brand of pseudophilosophy.

The core tenets of that particular groupthink are the rejection of the "mainstream media" as corrupt/"biased"/irrelevant (usually in favour of some guy publishing daily 60 minute rants on YouTube), an unhealthy obsession with IQs in general and its variability between races and/or genders in particular, and the unwavering belief that Flat Earthers and Holocaust Denialists are the result of a lack of information on the respective subjects.

"Self-Indulgent" is a perfect term here: these people expand the universe of possible sources to almost infinity, which is laudable, at least in theory. But in the necessary next step of cutting it down to the amount one can actually handle, they fail to preserve the diversity of the input signal.

From the rich buffet that is on offer, they pick 15 cheeseburgers.

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#86
Distinguishing science from pseudoscience is called the "demarcation problem" and is surprisingly difficult and subtle. It would seem to me that the analogous "philosophical demarcation problem" is even more difficult and probably completely meaningless because of the open and fluid nature of philosophy itself.

The author believes that "pseudophilosophy," whatever that is, encourages confused and self-indulgent thinking and therefore must be separated from proper philosophy. But many people would level the same criticism at philosophy itself. Why then is it useful to distinguish between between the two?

I don't view this as a problem because philosophy is not science and is concerned with the "hypothesis generation" side of human inquiry. That is to say, the value it provides is in coming up with new, interesting, and diverse points of view that may or may not be correct but certainly broaden the mind. As Paul Feyerbend[1] argues in his book Beyond Method, "anything goes" when it comes to hypothesis generation and the more creative the better. Philosophy, chaotic and ill-defined as philosophy is, it certainly useful for hypothesis generation, and there are many famous cases of scientists citing philosophers[2] as inspiration. Once we pin down a theory and begin to seriously question if it is a good model for reality we have left philosophy and entered the realm of science.

I personally don't see how it could be otherwise: theories and ideas don't spring fully formed from the head, but evolve piecemeal as vague ideas are made more coherent through criticism, and this activity is labeled "philosophy." To deny the human mind a space in which to play with half-formed ideas is to put an end to new ideas altogether.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Feyerabend

[2]: https://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/papers/HumeMach.pdf

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#88

As somebody who makes a living "as a philosopher" in areas that overlap with CS, decision making, logic, AI and appear to be more scientific in nature, I may find this article emotionally somewhat appealing but still don't think it's a useful view about philosophy. The first and foremost thing about philosophy laymen should realize is that the vast majority of philosophers do not consider philosophy a science. They a…

[deleted]

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#89

As somebody who makes a living "as a philosopher" in areas that overlap with CS, decision making, logic, AI and appear to be more scientific in nature, I may find this article emotionally somewhat appealing but still don't think it's a useful view about philosophy. The first and foremost thing about philosophy laymen should realize is that the vast majority of philosophers do not consider philosophy a science. They a…

>> Calling the work pseudophilosophy will only enrage people who disagree and not help with anything.

Upon reading the first paragraphs I thought the author was engaging in completely arrogant "my philosophy is better than yours" and "only experts can understand philosophy".

Your comment that 80 percent is bullshit explains a lot. And the idea that practitioners can't agree on which 80 percent even more so.

My impression is that philosophy is simply a means of framing our existence in such a way to reduce internal stress over the realities we face. From that perspective it makes perfect sense that one can adopt different philosophies and reject others.

Re: Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking

#90
post #74

As somebody who makes a living "as a philosopher" in areas that overlap with CS, decision making, logic, AI and appear to be more scientific in nature, I may find this article emotionally somewhat appealing but still don't think it's a useful view about philosophy. The first and foremost thing about philosophy laymen should realize is that the vast majority of philosophers do not consider philosophy a science. They a…

> the majority of philosophers silently agree that 80% of all publications or more in philosophy are nonsense or bullshit > These disciplines have overall lower standards in comparison to philosophy Given your earlier statement, may I ask what you consider to be the higher standards of philosophy? I ask somewhat rhetorically as a former philosophy PhD student who left because I felt the whole field seemed quite indif…

Not the OP, but well regarded philosophy journals (in my academic neck of the woods) have ridiculously low acceptance rates (2-3% often), and in general peer review is done and taken seriously.
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