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Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

bbc.com

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Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#21

Post by indigochill »

ginko wrote: post #12
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

>The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to third-parties and Facebook should somehow be faulted for that. Even so you wrote yourself that users shared data about their friends. Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this?

If I put on my blinders against this being Facebook for a moment, supposing that you're on a social network in which your friend is someone you personally trust, then it's not that ridiculous to trust that person with the decision to share your data. In a very limited way, you kind of expect this (your friend giving your number to someone who they think you'll get along with, or whatever).

This goes a bit sideways on Facebook in two main ways, I think:

1. People are way too fast and loose with who they keep as "friends" on Facebook

2. Facebook has way too much data to warrant a blanket "Yeah, please share -all- of that at once" agreement. Something more granular, like "The phone numbers of your friends who have themselves granted permissions for their friends to share their numbers" would be more reasonable.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#22

Post by lordnacho »

ceejayoz wrote: post #13
bzb6 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your friend has view access to your profile, why shouldn’t he be able to extract that information via an API as well?

For the same reason visiting my house doesn't mean they can steal the silverware?

Silverware isn't information though. This is more like inviting your friend over and then they tell someone the floor plan of your house.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#23

Post by dkarp »

Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

> Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends

This may be true technically, but if it was not made clear to the users what they were sharing and what their data would be used for then the users cannot legitimately agree.

Facebook, as platform owners, can force organisation to be clear about what will be disclosed and what for.

This is one of the goals of European GDPR and personally I don't think it needs to hinder legitimate usage. It just forces you to consider why you're collecting data, have a legitimate reason and disclose it to the user. Without that, companies have been hoovering up any user data they can get their hands on. User data should be a liability, rather than an asset.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#24

Post by nvoid »

Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

> I'm no Facebook fan

I like how we have to preface our opinions with this now. I think if you're on HN it's a given at this point.

I would agree with you that there are a lot of stupid people on the site and they will still find away to do something stupid. But I despise harsh regulation and I don't think that's necessarily the solution. However, when the stakes are so high (elections) I think there is something to be said for forcing Facebook to be accountable. Akin to a parent being responsible for a child, you shouldn't let them get into a situation where they can be that badly behaved.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#25

Post by lupire »

ceejayoz wrote: post #13
bzb6 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your friend has view access to your profile, why shouldn’t he be able to extract that information via an API as well?

For the same reason visiting my house doesn't mean they can steal the silverware?

Nothing was stolen. People visiting your allows are allowed to remember and say that your silverware exists, unless they sign an NDA.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#27

Post by manux »

lupire wrote: post #17
manux wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to third-parties and Facebook should somehow be faulted for that. It's not clear to me that they shouldn't be faulted. How many people read terms and conditions? How many people lack the technological literacy to understand what it means to share their facebook data with third-parties? It seems to me like we should make our systems robust to the average user…

Reading the EULA and T&C are irrelevant, because what CA did wrong was violate the EULA and T&C. Anyway, You are making an argument for regulations requiring disclosures, like in mortgages and nutrition labels, not an argument that Facebook is at fault for letting users interact with 3rd parties, which could have been a browser extension that scraped the same data that the FB API provides.

True, but until these regulations exists, I'm not sure why we shouldn't hold Facebook accountable, at least morally -- and in the example you give, why we shouldn't hold browser extension providers accountable.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#28

Post by jwolfe »

bzb6 wrote: post #7
Nextgrid wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed - this is the result of stupid users. If the APIs are gone they will just be entering their Facebook credentials directly (which would leak way more data than what relatively limited API access allows).

Obviously it’s the result of stupid users, but you can get rid of the APIs, you can’t get rid of the stupid users.

If you get rid of the API it will just happen through malicious Chrome extensions instead. I guess that's an improvement in practical impact.

Will the next argument be that browsers shouldn't be extensible, because it's a liability with stupid users?

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#29

Post by lm28469 »

bzb6 wrote: post #2

This is the result of open APIs. It shows why web sites like Facebook have to close them down. They are not worth it, they are a liability.

If you drive a car at 350kph on the highway, crash and die. Your death isn't due to "open roads", it's due to neglect/abuse

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#30

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ginko wrote: post #12
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

>The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to third-parties and Facebook should somehow be faulted for that. Even so you wrote yourself that users shared data about their friends. Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this?

Because open Internet principles as understood at the time required that. Facebook used to be heavily criticized (see e.g https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2007/08/open-soci...) for locking data into their platform when it ought to be available on the open web. There was a pervasive sense that you should be able to authorize third parties to do anything you can do through the official webapp; the term “walled garden” was common for platforms that wouldn’t offer this level of control.
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