231–240 of 284 posts
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serious question : would you recommend Rust for CRUDdy type of web applications -- stuff where mostly you are firing off prepared statememts at a SQL db and then applying business logic to result set. This is what most J2EE apps do currently.
That's what Go is for. I've said this before. Go has all those well-exercised packages for doing web applications. Rust is for harder problems. The ones you'd otherwise have to do in C++. I'm working on a client for a virtual world in Rust, and it is far easier in Rust than it would be in C++. Full 3D, GPU usage, networking, lots of state, a constantly changing big world through which you can move, compute bound, mul…
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> How is including Huawei as a founding member of the Rust Foundation in any way justifiable from a moral perspective? Probably in the same way that it is justifiable to support the DoD of the USA to use Rust on their drones that kill civilians all over the world. (the micro-controller of one of the turbines used in these drones runs 100% Rust). US military technology that uses Rust is also deployed in Israel to geno…
It's not about the fact that the Rust language itself is used to do bad things. It's about what the organizations that comprise the Rust foundation represent.
Yeah, I'll grant you the others are indeed guilty of terrible things. Personally I abhore parts of virtually every company there in some way or another.
Here's the thing: not every member company is completely beholden to an authoritarian government. Only one is.
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Rust Foundation seems pretty much targeted at HN-bubble-like groups, that do indeed have some familiarity with GMT/UTC.
Also CT is lucky to be unique. CST / BST / IST are a bit more of a guesswork for international groups.
Where are the bylaws? What are the responsibilities and rights of each role? Interim? Between what and what? ...
Sometimes Rust preaches inclusivity harder than it practices it.
/rant
Announcements also from Mozilla, Amazon and Microsoft: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/02/08/mozilla-welcomes-th... https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/congratulations-rust... https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/opensource/2021/02/08/micro...
Why make the Rust Foundation be its own corporate entity, instead of a project within another major non-profit like the Software Freedom Conservancy? (For those not familiar, SFC is the home of Git, Godot Engine, Homebrew, Inkscape, QEMU, and Wine.) My worry would be that this is happening because Amazon, Google, and Microsoft want control over the foundation. (They are writing the checks, so no surprise they'd want…
I find this attitude surprising. They are paying for development, why they shouldn't have authority to dictate the priorities? If it was SFC, some other interests would be dictating the priorities anyway.
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Everything you stated, is literally the reason I said there are caveats, I find it interesting you decided to expand on that, but quoted the second part, pretty much out of context. Nothing you said is wrong per se, but it’s also not entirely accurate. First, there are very good db connection libraries available to Rust users, with good connection pooling options. Second there are good ORMs if that’s something you en…
Rust for CRUD is not a 'Yes with Caveats' - it's a 'No' in all but some very specific cases, and even then it's a 'maybe'. It's outclassed by other stacks in almost every way for this purpose, and provides no material advantage most of these scenarios. Null safety never was a problem in CRUD apps, and, though performance usually is, it never boils down to 'speed of execution'. And of course, the long list of disadvan…
As a Rust dev coming from Java, I will tell you nulls and proper error handling in Java are still major runtime issues, a cause for many rollbacks and emergency fixes.
There is even the promise now with wasm and other tools to use Rust from the bottom to the top of the stack without any compromises (in terms of performance, memory usage, or type safety).
Rust might not be the language for you and that’s fine, but your opinion is not shared by everyone.
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Currently: C, C++, Python, Go, JS, C#, Java, Lua (if that counts), Kotlin, Julia, Scala. I've dabbled in a bunch of other ones but haven't made anything noteworthy with them. You may notice a lack of other modern compiled languages like Zig, so take that bias in mind :)
I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely curious. I've always thought of languages just as tools and have never been fanatic about a particular one. I personally like C and Java but have no problem using other languages if they are the best for the job. I'm really curious to know what makes rust so special? Mind you that I know nothing about it.
I thought rust had a steep learning curve and borrow mechanics were hard. Boy howdy, "Real" c++ makes rust look like a cake walk. C++ has basically all the borrow mechanics of rust, it's just verbose, tedious , idiosyncratic, and bolted on. Plus umpteen other ways to pass data around.
The package and build system just works.
IMHO The "only" real advantages c++ has over rust are momentum, availability, and the ability to natively use C can code. The mind share, library ecosystem, and ubiquity are unmatched. However I see a point where wrapping FFI becomes easy enough that this last advantage becomes a draw. The second is fixed by more compiler support.
Compared to Java, rust is less verbose, faster, less memory, and better abstractions, though I haven't touched Java in 5 years.
The rust experience is so much better than C++ that I see it continuously eating into mind share. I think the joy comes from the relief of frustration of working with automatic foot guns for years.
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Everything you stated, is literally the reason I said there are caveats, I find it interesting you decided to expand on that, but quoted the second part, pretty much out of context. Nothing you said is wrong per se, but it’s also not entirely accurate. First, there are very good db connection libraries available to Rust users, with good connection pooling options. Second there are good ORMs if that’s something you en…
Rust for CRUD is not a 'Yes with Caveats' - it's a 'No' in all but some very specific cases, and even then it's a 'maybe'. It's outclassed by other stacks in almost every way for this purpose, and provides no material advantage most of these scenarios. Null safety never was a problem in CRUD apps, and, though performance usually is, it never boils down to 'speed of execution'. And of course, the long list of disadvan…
This claim requires some data to back it up. I know at least a few people (including myself) who are more productive in Rust than in other mainstream languages typically used for CRUDs like Java, C#, Python, Ruby or PHP.
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> How is including Huawei as a founding member of the Rust Foundation in any way justifiable from a moral perspective? Probably in the same way that it is justifiable to support the DoD of the USA to use Rust on their drones that kill civilians all over the world. (the micro-controller of one of the turbines used in these drones runs 100% Rust). US military technology that uses Rust is also deployed in Israel to geno…
It seems the point of my [now censored] comment was misunderstood. It's not about the fact that the Rust language itself is used to do bad things. It's about what the organizations that comprise the Rust foundation represent. Yeah, I'll grant you the others are indeed guilty of terrible things. Personally I abhore parts of virtually every company there in some way or another. Here's the thing: not every member compan…
If you think this is an objectively a bad thing, you should probably compare the per capita excess mortality of China vs the US for 2020...
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The Rust community is very diverse and include people from all around the world, including a huge number of Chinese developers.
Not giving China a voice means that "negotiation" is not an option that China can choose when there is a dispute, forcing them to pick some other option instead.
If you really believe that China is super dangerous, forcing them out of the negotiation table is probably the single worst decision you can actually make.
I really hope you are not in favor of expelling China and all other countries you disagree with from the United Nations and similar policies, because that's how World War 3 starts...
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Yeah, this point is moot, still no say unless you pay to be a member, looks very high to me even to get a vote. My point is that it's all corporations and not the community, eventually the foundation will serve the interests of corporations one way or another.
There is no payment to be a member in ISO. As for the corporations, that is life, name one successful programming language without corporation backing.
The ISO member bodies don't charge any fees to be a member then?
> As for the corporations, that is life, name one successful programming language without corporation backing.
That isn't even the point, the issue is with these companies being on the board of directors, it seems you've resigned yourself to allow big tech companies to take control over Rust.
You can have companies and individuals donate to a project without placing them on the board, and it seems that with Rust you can't even donate.