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The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

nature.com

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Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#391

Post by exporectomy »

klmadfejno wrote: post #198
tgb wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the other side: if someone is a homicidal psychopath due to their genetics, then I still do not want them to roam free. So genetically predetermined is not a good argument to use in favor of gay rights. People should be allowed to determine their own sexuality, regardless of whether that determination was preset by their genetics or not, just as people should not be allowed to commit murder regardless of…

That's cheating. A person is only a homicidal psychopath after they have committed homicide. Locking up a psychopath who has committed no crimes is just as fucked up as locking up someone for being gay.

Prison is actually "fucked up" like that in way. Violent criminals are often locked up for longer than minimum of their sentence (denied parole), not for any revenge, punishment, or deterrence reason but only because they're judged as dangerous. That means the remaining time they spend in prison is because of their predicted future crimes.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#392

Post by Zardoz84 »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #272

Fascinating! To me this sounds like the mother's body is trying to "nudge" the odds towards a daughter after several sons, but sometimes the process "fails" and produces an effeminate male instead - a gay son. Alternatively, some kind of meta-level mechanism to reduce competition over women in the community, ultimately improving its collective health and well-being.

> Fascinating! To me this sounds like the mother's body is trying to "nudge" the odds towards a daughter after several sons, but sometimes the process "fails" and produces an effeminate male instead - a gay son.

You know that a homosexual not are "effeminate males" ? Man, try to revise these stereotype that you have.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#393

Post by Zardoz84 »

wyldfire wrote: post #310
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #272

Fascinating! To me this sounds like the mother's body is trying to "nudge" the odds towards a daughter after several sons, but sometimes the process "fails" and produces an effeminate male instead - a gay son. Alternatively, some kind of meta-level mechanism to reduce competition over women in the community, ultimately improving its collective health and well-being.

It seems more likely for it to be an emergent property of children serving as hunter/gatherer resources but not competing for procreation. It is either a novel mutation or something that is selected for.

> It is either a novel mutation or something that is selected for.

You know that homosexuality it's very know to happen on many animal species ? It's not a "novel mutation"

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#394

Post by corin_ »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #390
notmars wrote: post #386

And here lies the problems of finding causation not correlation: - gay is not binary neither through time (people do evolve both way while getting old) neither through ‘space’ (some people are half/half, some people have some preference for love and others for sex, and so on) - genes are not expressed linearly, and one slight expression in the womb can mean something big, or nothing or maybe something? - social press…

> - internal development and expression of sexuality does not happen at the same pace and at the same amplitude for everybody (some people really are asexual their whole life) and of course the familly, sister/brotherhood, socio-economical environment influence it too Some people IS asexual. Asexuality it's a valid sexual orientation like being bi/pan/homo or heterosexual. It isn't lack of sexual development or sexua…

I might be misunderstanding a valid criticism, but your complaint is about the parent comment's using "are" rather than "is"?

That's simply the plural version: if one person is asexual, multiple people are asexual.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#395

Post by notmars »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #390
notmars wrote: post #386

And here lies the problems of finding causation not correlation: - gay is not binary neither through time (people do evolve both way while getting old) neither through ‘space’ (some people are half/half, some people have some preference for love and others for sex, and so on) - genes are not expressed linearly, and one slight expression in the womb can mean something big, or nothing or maybe something? - social press…

> - internal development and expression of sexuality does not happen at the same pace and at the same amplitude for everybody (some people really are asexual their whole life) and of course the familly, sister/brotherhood, socio-economical environment influence it too Some people IS asexual. Asexuality it's a valid sexual orientation like being bi/pan/homo or heterosexual. It isn't lack of sexual development or sexua…

I was not suggesting it was, I was talking about expression of sexuality, both in the construct of the self and in society, that was a different part of my questioning. To be precise, it’s non-applicability in the case of asexual people, but I simplified to make my point to say it is extremely diverse and complicated and these studies are really not helping (I believe) by using a very large hammer to nail a multi-dimensional non-euclidian nail. Appreciate the correction on the grammar though and I knew that resource already but it’s always helpful to reread :-)

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#396

Post by Robotbeat »

wyldfire wrote: post #310
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #272

Fascinating! To me this sounds like the mother's body is trying to "nudge" the odds towards a daughter after several sons, but sometimes the process "fails" and produces an effeminate male instead - a gay son. Alternatively, some kind of meta-level mechanism to reduce competition over women in the community, ultimately improving its collective health and well-being.

It seems more likely for it to be an emergent property of children serving as hunter/gatherer resources but not competing for procreation. It is either a novel mutation or something that is selected for.

Evolutionary psychology is always such a stretch, but I had never considered that possibility before. If there are a lot of extra males, if all were heterosexual there could be destructive competition over female mates. So asexual/homosexual/etc may become selected for if a disproportionate number of males were in a community (still community resources as you say but not destructively competing for mates).

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#397

Post by exporectomy »

rootusrootus wrote: post #57
bonoetmalo wrote: post #41

Kind of hopeful we can stop using genetics as a way of justifying queer peoples' existence. Whether it's conditioning, a choice, or genetics, shouldn't really be a factor in how you treat queer people.

That would be ideal, but some people need to be convinced that it is not a choice before they will consider treating gay people with respect. So long as they think it's just a behavioral decision, they can rationalize their bigotry.

Those people are going to be bigots regardless, towards all the other things that are behavioral, such as most mental illness, addictions, sports accidents, drug convictions, political persuasion, religion, etc. So many ways to be judgmental of people's behaviors.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#398

Post by Robotbeat »

wombatmobile wrote: post #378
aspaceman wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like these are so hilariously idiotic. Props for making me guffaw out loud. “A meta level mechanism to reduce competition in the community” what the fuck is this saying. Why would gay men reduce competition? In a society that doesn’t accept homosexuality, they would still be with women. In a society that does, why would the woman’s body find it any more favorable to produce. This kind of navel gazing about e…

You’ve made valid points cogently, and asked relevant questions that could be answered using scientific methods, but you’re getting downvoted, which is a polemic response. Why?

Probably because the way he made the points was itself polemic?

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#399

Post by Zardoz84 »

corin_ wrote: post #394
Zardoz84 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - internal development and expression of sexuality does not happen at the same pace and at the same amplitude for everybody (some people really are asexual their whole life) and of course the familly, sister/brotherhood, socio-economical environment influence it too Some people IS asexual. Asexuality it's a valid sexual orientation like being bi/pan/homo or heterosexual. It isn't lack of sexual development or sexua…

I might be misunderstanding a valid criticism, but your complaint is about the parent comment's using "are" rather than "is"? That's simply the plural version: if one person is asexual, multiple people are asexual.

I was trying to point that a person can't become asexual (on the same way that no body can change is sexual orientation). Asexuals are born asexuals. Like a homosexual is born homosexual, etc.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#400

Post by wombatmobile »

Robotbeat wrote: post #398
wombatmobile wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve made valid points cogently, and asked relevant questions that could be answered using scientific methods, but you’re getting downvoted, which is a polemic response. Why?

Probably because the way he made the points was itself polemic?

That's one possibility. Can you think of any others?
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