Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rust Foundation: Hello, World

foundation.rust-lang.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 284 posts

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#221

Post by xiphias2 »

burntsushi wrote: post #196
yudlejoza wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trolling because there is no doubt in the mind of Rust fanboys that if ripgrep was a feature-for-feature replica of grep, in some parallel hypothetical universe, it would for sure have less code-size complexity. Got it.

ripgrep author here. No, you're trolling because you're being disingenuous and unnecessarily inflammatory. Your LOC counting, in particular, gratuitously misses the mark for a number of reasons. Firstly, as others have pointed out, the features in GNU grep and ripgrep are radically different. GNU grep, for example, doesn't have anything that the `ignore` crate provides. So on this point alone, a simple LOC comparison…

While this was an interesting read, the troll won because he made you spend lots of energy.

There’s a reason for the saying ,,don’t feed the troll’’. You can do so much better things with your time :)

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#222

Post by GolDDranks »

lilyball wrote: post #119
cristoperb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that many people know the offset of their timezone from GMT/UTC, so they wouldn't have to look it up, but nobody can be expected to know their offset from any arbitrary other timezone.

Offsets from GMT/UTC are annoying when you have to deal with DST though, as it can be confusing to remember which offset applies at any given point in time.

This, of course, applies to any timezone, as the starts and ends of DSTs (if they exist) are different in different countries.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#223

Post by syrusakbary »

coder543 wrote: post #147
nahuel0x wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no V8 here, you don't need a JS VM to run WASM. It uses wasmer, a Rust based WASM VM: https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer

Awesome! I had heard of wasmer before, but I didn't realize its performance was that good yet. I'll definitely be paying closer attention to this space now. Although, on closer inspection it seems like wasmer is using LLVM as a backend to get that good performance, which tempers my enthusiasm a little bit. I see that wasmer also supports the Cranelift backend, but the promised performance blog post[1] doesn't seem to…

Syrus here, from Wasmer.

Thanks for the kind words!

There are some nice opportunities to bring LLVM compilation times closer to the optimal ones in multithreaded environments. We are currently working towards that and hope to get something tangible in next releases... stay tuned!

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#224

Post by pjmlp »

yannoninator wrote: post #175
pjmlp wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone is free to submit a paper to ISO and ECMA, provided they are willing to champion it.

Yeah, this point is moot, still no say unless you pay to be a member, looks very high to me even to get a vote. My point is that it's all corporations and not the community, eventually the foundation will serve the interests of corporations one way or another.

There is no payment to be a member in ISO.

As for the corporations, that is life, name one successful programming language without corporation backing.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#225

Post by burntsushi »

xiphias2 wrote: post #221
burntsushi wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ripgrep author here. No, you're trolling because you're being disingenuous and unnecessarily inflammatory. Your LOC counting, in particular, gratuitously misses the mark for a number of reasons. Firstly, as others have pointed out, the features in GNU grep and ripgrep are radically different. GNU grep, for example, doesn't have anything that the `ignore` crate provides. So on this point alone, a simple LOC comparison…

While this was an interesting read, the troll won because he made you spend lots of energy. There’s a reason for the saying ,,don’t feed the troll’’. You can do so much better things with your time :)

It took me about ten minutes to write that. Sometimes trolls need to be called out. And sometimes, lame myths espoused by trolls need to be deconstructed.

I've been on discussion forums since my childhood years. I'm well aware of my opportunity costs, thank you very much. :-)

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#226

Post by volta83 »

rexdexpl wrote: post #171
lights0123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algebraic data types[0], compile-time thread safety guarantees[1], async/await on embedded[2], type inference that can work backwards[3], blocks are expressions so you can return values from if statements[4], returning from while(true) loops[5], and iterators[6] that don't kill performance[7]. [0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch06-01-defining-an-enum.html... [1]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch16-04-extensible-c…

Hmm, have you ever finished any real world scale product in it? All those things you mentioned are mostly toys that mostly inexperienced programmers are only excited with. RUST lacks in real world scalability and applicability, it's still toy language even after years of development.

I worked on two Rust projects over 500k LOC, one 800k LOC and one that's now at 1.5 million LOC.

Number one feature versus Kotlin, C++, C#, C, Haskell, Python, Ruby, etc. is how easy it is to refactor large-scale Rust code bases safely.

Refactoring a large C++ code-base is almost impossible to do correctly without introducing lots of bugs, undefined behavior, security vulnerabilities, etc.

We did a major refactor (completely parallelized an ~700k LOC application) in a relatively short span of time (6 months) in Rust without issues.

We are also not the only ones that did this. Mozilla tried to parallelize Firefox using C++, and this failed so hard, that they actually chose to develop Rust far enough first, to be able to do that in Rust instead, and all that work actually landed on Firefox a couple of years ago already. I wouldn't consider Firefox a "toy" project.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#227

Post by volta83 »

rl3 wrote: post #177

[flagged]

> How is including Huawei as a founding member of the Rust Foundation in any way justifiable from a moral perspective?

Probably in the same way that it is justifiable to support the DoD of the USA to use Rust on their drones that kill civilians all over the world. (the micro-controller of one of the turbines used in these drones runs 100% Rust).

US military technology that uses Rust is also deployed in Israel to genocide palestinians, and at this point Rust is involved somewhere in every civilian life the US directly or indirectly contributes to taking away.

So if this is where you want to put the bar, then none of the tech companies that are now major Rust foundation members would pass it.

I mean, Microsoft hosts the NSA cloud that's used to spy on citizens all around the world, and rattle them out to get them killed when it suits the CIA. Facebook was used by Cambridge Analytica to rig Brexit in the UK, and the list goes on and on and on.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#228

Post by cies »

dhbradshaw wrote: post #207
manishsharan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

serious question : would you recommend Rust for CRUDdy type of web applications -- stuff where mostly you are firing off prepared statememts at a SQL db and then applying business logic to result set. This is what most J2EE apps do currently.

I'm working on a little crud project. It uses rust all the way down, with actix-web as the http framework and sled as an embedded key value store. The idea is to replace the complexity and expense of using many nodes with one node that's extremely fast. It's been a slow side project for the last month learning the ecosystem and figuring out how to properly deal with types etc. But now I have a page that uses an opaqu…

> I'm just not sure how I could have achieved that with, for example, Django.

Impossible.

Also look at startup time, disk size for installation...

But the real benefit is when you want to hack/refactor your code months or years later (or someone else working on the code): languages with strong type systems can help prevent sooo many error in those cases. Compare that to Python where many errors are only discovered runtime.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#229

Post by loeg »

crazypython wrote: post #15

The board's vote seems to be heavily biased in favor of large corporations, with half the seats for them, 2 for the community, and 3 for "project areas." Contrast this with the governance of GCC, which has all of them as community members or project areas.

It's a business association, like the Linux Foundation. It's very much for the corporate members, like the Linux Foundation.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#230

Post by pjmlp »

steveklabnik wrote: post #191
treis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of these companies use Rust much. You may find teams here and there using it but the vast majority of the Rust type stuff is written in C++ or Java.

It depends on what you mean by "much." If you mean "as a volume of LOC of total software development," absolutely. But if you mean "not being used for anything big" or "not being used for anything important," that is very much wrong.

In what concerns Microsoft, I am yet to see anything besides Win32 and WinRT bindings generation.

UWP/WinUI foundations are in C++ and .NET.

Azure Sphere, despite all the security selling marketing uses C based SDK.

Windows kernel seemed to be in the right direction adopting more C++ and less C, specially with the userspace drivers COM SDK, but they just reverted to more C support on the latest versions.

So in what concerns Microsoft, I look forward to their Rust's adoption, although currently its adoption is yet to be reflected on the Windows development ecosystem.

Post reply on HN