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Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

amycastor.com

81–90 of 162 posts

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One assumes that air and water purity was fairly better pre-Industrial Revolution.

I'm not so sure. No water systems at all. Lack of covered drains. Firewood for heat in any population center. Tuberculosis and cholera. Unrefrigerated meat.

Sure, but on the other hand no large-scale industrial by-products, no islands of plastic in the sea, the mountains of trash were less durable and closer to being biodegradable.

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#82
post #17

https://ark-invest.com/analyst-research/bitcoin-myths/ Claim: Bitcoin wastes too much energy. Counter-Claim: Bitcoin’s energy consumption is more efficient than that of gold and traditional banks.

There is no effort to bring these to the same base. The global banking system is massive. The article is factoring retail banking, stock & bonds, finance, derivatives, payment processing and a lot more in to "Global Banking". Even if bitcoin was to replace the dollar and gold all at once, much of that infrastructure would still be needed. Add to this bitcoin does an infinitesimally small number of transactions compar…

Do you really think a startup running on Bitcoin can't be do a better job than the legacy banking system? And by startup I mean a group of people that write software in a competitive environment.

Those already exist (Lightning Labs) and there's so much more to do with a secure programmable distributed database.

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#83
post #53

Here's my wild speculation on why Musk did this (and why it's brilliant) He knows there is a large and growing community of Bitcoin speculators and enthusiasts out there. By "endorsing" Bitcoin in this way, he not only moved the market--further enriching these folks--but also signaled that he is an ally to them, significantly boosting positive sentiment toward him and increasing the likelihood that they will purchase…

I don't think it's just a simple stunt. Apparently, the onboard computer on the latest Teslas is capable of mining BTC profitably at the current prices (allegedly). It would be amusing to have cars mine when idle/plugged in, or better yet have any unsold inventory mining 24/7 (since electricity can be written off as operational expenses). I wouldn't put it past Elon.

Mining BTC is not profitable without dedicated ASICs. Other coins might be possible, but I doubt car hardware would have significant hashrate.

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#84
post #14

Genuine question: what's the end game here for Musk? He's been tweeting about dogecoin, and then Tesla invests a non insignificant amount of money in BTC. I smell something fishy.

I think Tesla want's to start accepting bitcoin as payment. This is my speculation, but this kind of acquisition makes sense if they also want to render payment in bitcoin. Alternatively this is just a value storage. Musk went on record saying he thinks stock is overvalued at the beginning of 2020 and then it went on 700% rampage. This could be just that Tesla has more cash than they need and they wanted to store it…

There are so many ways protect assets from inflation.

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#85
post #53

Here's my wild speculation on why Musk did this (and why it's brilliant) He knows there is a large and growing community of Bitcoin speculators and enthusiasts out there. By "endorsing" Bitcoin in this way, he not only moved the market--further enriching these folks--but also signaled that he is an ally to them, significantly boosting positive sentiment toward him and increasing the likelihood that they will purchase…

Do you seriously think that Bitcoin enthusiasts are Elon Musk's target market? Bitcoin is useless and inflexible as a currency, and the massive risk definitely won't help bring Tesla any profit. Sounds more like market moving on his part designed to get publicity. Musk is known for making controversial decisions to increase his notoriety.

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#86
Elon is an evil character. Since he bought his McLaren to show off and totaled it - to this day. He doesn't care about humanity and science - all he cares about is ego and money. And that's nothing new here, but let's stop idolizing him and give him more credit than he deserves. From tax credits to this abuse - all his money is thanks to the US taxpayer who doesn't drive a Tesla because they can't afford one!

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#87
post #75

What this tells me is that Tesla has too much cash and doesn't think investing that cash in its main business would produce gains comparable to BTC. Tesla believes in the profitability of BTC more than its own profitability or the profitability of one of Musk's other ventures. Sure, maybe they want to diversify but that's a hell of a lot of money to throw at such a volatile commodity.

All large enterprises keep cash reserves. Whether you agree or not, the prevailing thesis behind keeping cash reserves in BTC is not that it will turn a profit, but that it will avoid devaluation like USD.

That's a ridiculous assumption to make. Bitcoin's value comes from speculation, not from anything of value in the real world. The price could tank to $500 tomorrow, because there is no government, no trust, and nothing in the real world backing it up other than hype. In light of this USD devaluation seems like a way less risky alternative.

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#88

Energy is the largest cost in bitcoin mining. Mining moves to the cheapest electricity locations. Renewables are already the cheapest energy source globally, and getting better. So in the mid-term bitcoin mining will move to renewable energy sources, problem solved.

If all the world's clean energy is consumed by bitcoin mining, then what energy does the rest of us use?

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#89
post #31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or PoS Ethereum or other PoS crypto currencies can take the place of exponentially energy-hungry PoW. They explicitly deal with the 50%+ attacks in their governance too.

How so - by central authority changes?

For certain cases of attacks, yes with minority forks, and by destroying the attackers stake in other cases, see the section titled "Attacks are much easier to recover from in proof of stake" here: https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/11/06/pos2020.html

Re: Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin

#90
post #53

Here's my wild speculation on why Musk did this (and why it's brilliant) He knows there is a large and growing community of Bitcoin speculators and enthusiasts out there. By "endorsing" Bitcoin in this way, he not only moved the market--further enriching these folks--but also signaled that he is an ally to them, significantly boosting positive sentiment toward him and increasing the likelihood that they will purchase…

I don't think it's just a simple stunt. Apparently, the onboard computer on the latest Teslas is capable of mining BTC profitably at the current prices (allegedly). It would be amusing to have cars mine when idle/plugged in, or better yet have any unsold inventory mining 24/7 (since electricity can be written off as operational expenses). I wouldn't put it past Elon.

> the onboard computer on the latest Teslas is capable of mining BTC profitably

I would be interested to learn more about that. I thought the bulk of the Autopilot compute power is in dense neural network inference which wouldn't be any good for SHA hashing.

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