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Rust Foundation: Hello, World

foundation.rust-lang.org

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Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#171

Post by rexdexpl »

lights0123 wrote: post #167
felipemnoa wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely curious. I've always thought of languages just as tools and have never been fanatic about a particular one. I personally like C and Java but have no problem using other languages if they are the best for the job. I'm really curious to know what makes rust so special? Mind you that I know nothing about it.

Algebraic data types[0], compile-time thread safety guarantees[1], async/await on embedded[2], type inference that can work backwards[3], blocks are expressions so you can return values from if statements[4], returning from while(true) loops[5], and iterators[6] that don't kill performance[7]. [0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch06-01-defining-an-enum.html... [1]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch16-04-extensible-c…

Hmm, have you ever finished any real world scale product in it? All those things you mentioned are mostly toys that mostly inexperienced programmers are only excited with.

RUST lacks in real world scalability and applicability, it's still toy language even after years of development.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#172

Post by shepmaster »

mamcx wrote: post #64
manishsharan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

serious question : would you recommend Rust for CRUDdy type of web applications -- stuff where mostly you are firing off prepared statememts at a SQL db and then applying business logic to result set. This is what most J2EE apps do currently.

I have a app that have been ported from old python -> f# -> rust (e-commerce like) and the transition was great ( https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/hh9tz6/does_rust_have... ). You need to pay attention in how align the whole software stack. Pairing Rust with tailwinds and htmx or Hotwire simplify so much stuff is like cheating. For regular CRUD flows having enums/traits/iterators make domain modeling very good a…

Can you share a bit about how you’ve integrated Hotwire with Rust? I recently wondered how well they’d pair.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#173

Post by steveklabnik »

rexdexpl wrote: post #171
lights0123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algebraic data types[0], compile-time thread safety guarantees[1], async/await on embedded[2], type inference that can work backwards[3], blocks are expressions so you can return values from if statements[4], returning from while(true) loops[5], and iterators[6] that don't kill performance[7]. [0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch06-01-defining-an-enum.html... [1]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch16-04-extensible-c…

Hmm, have you ever finished any real world scale product in it? All those things you mentioned are mostly toys that mostly inexperienced programmers are only excited with. RUST lacks in real world scalability and applicability, it's still toy language even after years of development.

The foundation member companies are some of the largest technology companies in the world, and are using Rust at scale.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#174

Post by lights0123 »

rexdexpl wrote: post #171
lights0123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algebraic data types[0], compile-time thread safety guarantees[1], async/await on embedded[2], type inference that can work backwards[3], blocks are expressions so you can return values from if statements[4], returning from while(true) loops[5], and iterators[6] that don't kill performance[7]. [0]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch06-01-defining-an-enum.html... [1]: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch16-04-extensible-c…

Hmm, have you ever finished any real world scale product in it? All those things you mentioned are mostly toys that mostly inexperienced programmers are only excited with. RUST lacks in real world scalability and applicability, it's still toy language even after years of development.

Critical parts of AWS's Nitro are written in Rust, which powers all of their new high-performance computing—is that a "toy"? What about Dropbox's sync algorithm? You know, the one that runs on every computer with Dropbox installed that is their core business logic, powering file storage for more than 0.5B users? Firefox's Stylo and other parts? They still have hundreds of millions of users.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#175

Post by yannoninator »

pjmlp wrote: post #159
yannoninator wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you and I are more likely not to have say in this, I prefer the community to have a say not corporations.

Anyone is free to submit a paper to ISO and ECMA, provided they are willing to champion it.

Yeah, this point is moot, still no say unless you pay to be a member, looks very high to me even to get a vote.

My point is that it's all corporations and not the community, eventually the foundation will serve the interests of corporations one way or another.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#176

Post by dfabulich »

ChrisSD wrote: post #107

Announcements also from Mozilla, Amazon and Microsoft: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/02/08/mozilla-welcomes-th... https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/congratulations-rust... https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/opensource/2021/02/08/micro...

Why make the Rust Foundation be its own corporate entity, instead of a project within another major non-profit like the Software Freedom Conservancy?

(For those not familiar, SFC is the home of Git, Godot Engine, Homebrew, Inkscape, QEMU, and Wine.)

My worry would be that this is happening because Amazon, Google, and Microsoft want control over the foundation. (They are writing the checks, so no surprise they'd want to control how that money gets invested…)

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#178

Post by swsieber »

pdevr wrote: post #87

As someone who wants to use Rust for real world applications, what are some good use cases for Rust? Web development is not its strong suite, apparently. Or, better still, what have you personally built using Rust?

I built a tool that generates personal code coverage reports from general test code coverage and repo inputs. IE what is the code coverage on lines I wrote this sprint and lines I wrote ever.

It stores blame coverage data in an sqlite db and generates static html reports for easy deployment. It handles TS/JS (lcov) coverage natively (I have to parse the files with SWC to figure out what lines are parseable). It has to dish out to a small jar to extract jacoco coverage.

It takes about an hour to do the initial data population and can generate an report and update test infor in 5-10 minutes for a roughly 600K loc codebase. Sadly it's closed source at work.

I'd been kicking around the idea in my head for a bit, and when I got the go-ahead from my boss I was able to bring it to completion fast enough to surprise my boss.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#179

Post by dfabulich »

ChrisSD wrote: post #24
crazypython wrote: post #15

The board's vote seems to be heavily biased in favor of large corporations, with half the seats for them, 2 for the community, and 3 for "project areas." Contrast this with the governance of GCC, which has all of them as community members or project areas.

The goal of the foundation is to work as a bridge between the Rust teams and the corporate world (e.g. sponsorship, licensing, etc). As the blog post notes, the actual development of the language is fully open and is comprised of RFCs and the like which allow anyone to contribute. It's the core team who oversee this process, not the foundation. In short the foundation works for Rust, not the other way around.

The foundation works for its board members. We can hope that the board members will work for Rust, but the structure of the board does nothing to check their power and influence.

On the other hand, I do recognize that the board members are the ones bringing the funding to the table; maybe this was the best way to maximize their contributions. If the board's interests align well with the Rust community's interests, then this could turn out fine, at least at first.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#180

Post by steveklabnik »

dfabulich wrote: post #176
ChrisSD wrote: post #107

Announcements also from Mozilla, Amazon and Microsoft: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/02/08/mozilla-welcomes-th... https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/congratulations-rust... https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/opensource/2021/02/08/micro...

Why make the Rust Foundation be its own corporate entity, instead of a project within another major non-profit like the Software Freedom Conservancy? (For those not familiar, SFC is the home of Git, Godot Engine, Homebrew, Inkscape, QEMU, and Wine.) My worry would be that this is happening because Amazon, Google, and Microsoft want control over the foundation. (They are writing the checks, so no surprise they'd want…

As I mentioned below, the way to get good answers here is to contact them directly; nobody from the foundation is in this thread.
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