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NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

greenwald.substack.com

241–250 of 368 posts

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#241
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Stasi-like" remark was "Stasi-like citizen surveillance ". The latter was conveniently omitted upthread. No one is arguing that this is Stasi-like in that the outcome was arrest. > They arrested political dissenters by the thousands. Andreesen is a billionaire who would, at worst, have to apologize on twitter and continue his life of total freedom. These kinds of arguments would crop up in the cancel culture deb…

Come on. You don't use a loaded phrase like "Stasi-like" unless you're implying something nefarious. It seems monumentally hypocritical for a guy who's entire career is based on having access to other people's private communications. Lorenz's beat is heavily based on following social media trends including stuff like wallstreetbets which was the topic of the clubhouse chat. Greenwald is ascribing a lot of intent that…

> You don't use a loaded phrase like "Stasi-like" unless you're implying something nefarious.

To be perfectly clear, he was using it to refer to citizen-surveillance which is patently nefarious.

> Greenwald is ascribing a lot of intent that he can't back up.

Those of us who suffered her social media account while it was public have the context to know that his characterization isn't far off. More importantly though, this isn't about her, but rather about the broader trend of policing ideological transgressions and passing it off as "journalism".

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we see the rise of citizen journalism and independent media. Mainstream media is completely biased and not trustable. Matt Taibbi keeps stressing the need for a unbiased news site but if it has corporate backing, it will eventually become compromised.

I think I am with you on your first sentence being a way forward. Substack is pretty interesting in that regard. I run into some issues with your use of Taibbi as a good anecdote though for unbiased reporting, and I won't touch your MSM comment. I think Taibbi is a competent, honest, and candid reporter. That said, I was around during his coverage of GS in the Rolling Stone in '08-'09. Is he good at speaking truth to…

I agree Taibbi is biased, what makes him a good example for a new model of journalism is that his bias is a) clear and b) not hegemonic. Let a thousand Taibbis bloom each with their own worldview, hangups and bugbears. That seems like a much healthier landscape than the boring, hegemonic left-y (but not Bernie lefty, because his fans are sooo mean online) milieu that we have now.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#243
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to trust a reporter when they behave abhorrently on Twitter, especially when their Twitter persona is based on their occupation as a journalist.

I don't see how this rates as abhorrent.

I thought it sufficed to say that overt defamation is abhorrent, at least when one is a journalist at the newspaper of record.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#244

So, an NYT reporter snooping on a Clubhouse conversation got her facts wrong (although she later corrected them), and the entire thing seemed relatively trivial to start with. And... this is exhibit A for the prosecution about how no one is doing real journalism anymore, they're just playing hall monitor. Or turning into the modern Stasi. Sure, those two things don't seem very similar, but we always forget how the SS…

> it was fine when they were cancelling Bari Weiss, because he was on board with that

? I don't recall him being on board with Weiss getting shown the door.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#245
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, this is perhaps the most overt or high-profile example of her untrustworthiness, but there's a long tail of slightly subtler and lower-profile incidents that undoubtedly factored into her termination. It's not like this was a one-off, out-of-character incident.

Not sure what you're talking about, but she hasn't been terminated. She just made her twitter private because she was getting harangued.

You're right; my mistake. I confused the outcome of her situation with Wolfe's, although I find Wolfe's offense utterly harmless by comparison.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion vs News. Greenwald is clearly expressing his personal opinion on his personal blog/page/substack. Newspapers generally mark Opinion columns as Opinion. In the case of the NYT article, it's not marked Opinion, but you could reasonably infer it as opinion because it's written as a dialog between two people. However, it's not explicitly marked as opinion, which it should be in order to make it clear that this is…

The NYT headline may be loaded and headlines fitting Betteridge's law may be facile, but there's nothing inherently "Opinion" about it (though the subheading saying "Our tech columnists discuss..." makes it pretty clear what you're about to read). Meanwhile Greenwald states his Substack is where he's publishing as an independent journalist, so unless you want to start referring to him as an independent pundit (or ent…

Absolutely. But Greenwald is writing as a private individual journalist, clearly his own opinions. There's no journalistic integrity rule that says an opinion column cannot be sensationalist, overblown, or even downright wrong.

Also, accusing a man like Greenwald (who resigned from the media organisation that he founded because he disagreed with the direction it was taking) of poor integrity? That's a bit off-base.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#247
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with you that mere size at all makes a company quasi-governmental and in particular disagree with your chosen example of social media. It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. I'm not aware of any utility companies with such pow…

> It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. I'm not aware of any utility companies with such power. And most of the cases I'm aware of where they've used that power is to suppress viral lies, which is a good thing . Even then they were late p…

> And most of the cases I'm aware of where they've used that power is to suppress viral lies, which is a good thing. Even then they were late pulling the trigger.

Why on earth would you suspect that the handful of incidents that they advertise are a remotely representative sample? Of course the highest profile censorship is going to be agreeable, but we have no idea what lurks below the surface because we have no transparency.

> And that's what's dangerous about them: the filter got removed from broadcasting. People like to talk about filters like they're bad things, but that's not true. They're in fact a vitally necessary function to increase the signal-to-noise ratio (for instance: what is peer review? Answer: a filter). when you don't have filters, ideas spread in proportion to how quickly they can multiply, which isn't a good thing, because a lot of fast-spreading ideas are akin to cancer, and do nothing except weaken or kill the host.

I certainly don't dispute that filters can be good things. I have an issue with such an important filter being operated by a single entity (or a small handful of entities with aligned interests and who act in concert, for those inclined toward pedantry) who is not beholden to the public. Note that "peer review" isn't one guy determining what is going to be considered "science" this year; rather, it's distributed by its very nature. We should strive for social filters that are similarly robust, and distributing the curation among many smaller parties is the most obvious way to go.

> If Twitter's to avoid killing its host, it needs an immune system to filter out those cancerous ideas.

Or we kill Twitter. :) I say this half in-jest, but some people who are positively terrified about the collapse of democracy seem to take it as an article of faith that Twitter deserves to exist. I think there's some happy medium but if we fail to find it dispatching Twitter seems better than where we're heading.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#248
post #6

>the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram. This week they asked: “Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?” One reporter “confess[ed] that I am worried about Telegram. Other than private messaging, people love to use Telegram for group chats — up to 200,000 people can meet inside a Telegram ch…

It blows my mind that someone would read > 'the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram.' and then decide this was good quality, unbiased journalism worth paying for. And then go on to post that sentence as evidence of its goodness. Looks like anger porn to me.

I guess it depends on how you read it. I read that statement in a humorous tone as-if the author was amused by it. It didn't sound angry to me. I do appreciate the ability of an author to simultaneously inform and amuse. Many people (I'd put myself in that category) are looking for interesting news articles, that are not just a boring list of facts. I'm not a follower of the authors work, but as far as I can tell there isn't anything important thats factually incorrect in the article.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind that someone would read > 'the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram.' and then decide this was good quality, unbiased journalism worth paying for. And then go on to post that sentence as evidence of its goodness. Looks like anger porn to me.

I think Greenwald uses a lot of snark, and I wish he would restrain himself a bit because I think he turns a lot of people off with that approach. That said, he has a level of authenticity and honesty about his biases that is sorely lacking in many journalists these days. A lot of reporters feel as passionate about the subjects they cover as he does, but they aren't forthright about it. Regarding journalistic value,…

> A lot of reporters feel as passionate about the subjects they cover as he does, but they aren't forthright about it.

First-rate journalism highlights the subject's corruption or bad behavior with such persuasive and overwhelming evidence that the audience generally judges the person or organization under discussion to be a mendacious object of derision.

That is an accurate characterization of the journalism on the Snowden leaks that Greenwald won the Pulitzer for. E.g., the story on NSA spying on Petrobras.

Second-rate journalism simply cuts out the middle-man and casually derides the person directly for an audience that is drooling to see that person taken down a peg. E.g., "Liz Cheney is a compulsive liar who will say anything to manipulate the public, just like her father taught her to do."[1]

I have no idea why Greenwald insists on using techniques of second-rate journalism in his op-eds-- op-eds which quite obviously also include a lot of background research. But I find his consistent use of second-rate journalism steers his rhetoric in directions that directly mislead the reader.

E.g., when AOC tweeted about WSB, Greenwald alleged that she wanted to "claim these Redditors as their own," as he wrote in one of his articles. That's a mischaracterization of what she did, and apparently those Redditors agree with me:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6fg8q/aoc_...

The responses there are a lot of fun to read-- lots of riffs, some surprising agreement, some reasonable disagreement. But as far as I can tell, nearly every default-visible comment there understood that she was uttering a relevant and common refrain from her political platform, not attempting to "claim" the users of WSB as current or even future social democrats. Politicians do this all the time-- e.g., Bernie Sanders did when as a presidential candidate in 2016 he spoke to Liberty University-- communicating to people with obvious opposing viewpoints where they are (albeit in her case with a bit of obvious snark) by focusing on common ground.

That is fundamentally different than a politician claiming a constituency for themselves who is likely opposed to their views in reality. When a politician does that it's at the very least condescending, and you can probably imagine how a group of trash-talking free marketheads on Reddit would respond if AOC actually tried to do that.

Greenwald's writing is littered with enough of these little boogers that it consistently gets in the way of his larger points. And in op-eds like his, there usually isn't that much original research in the first place-- there are plenty of other authors covering this territory who don't hurl completely unnecessary insults at people.

Just look at the comment sections of his articles to get a sense of what kind of person this type of writing attracts. It's not as rabid and pretentious as a David Foster Wallace fan club, but it's close.

[1] https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-case-for-a-pardon-of-ed...

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