Live data from Hacker News

NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

greenwald.substack.com

221–230 of 368 posts

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#221
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person with a blue checkmark on Twitter verifies themselves to give themselves professional legitimacy. Especially considering that in the example we are discussing, the person's profession is to reach people and share words , associating their publicly shared words with their professional life is not beyond the pail. They've associated their name with their job, not me.

Is that a yes or a no?

I've very clearly made a distinction between the two scenarios, but if you need me to draw it for you in crayons, it is a "no".

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that a slur is a much stronger insult typically aimed at one's ethnicity. What's being said here is that the word retard is an insult, but does not rise to the level/strength of a slur.

Feels like you’re cutting that a bit thin. In any case, my experience (and - probably - the context of my cultural upbringing) was that the word was used to both denigrate people with developmental disabilities and to degrade those who did not. This wasn’t calling someone a “loser”. This was using an immutable characteristic of someone’s personhood against them and attacking others by asserting a resemblance.

In the US calling someone a retard is considered very tame compared to calling them a nigger or spic, etc.

Yes, calling someone a retard isn't polite, but it's nowhere near the level of offense of the other words.

Not all insults are created equal and that was the point the other poster was making. Putting it in the same category as the other words is a bit much.

It's like comparing Harvey Weinstein with that drunk asshole who slapped the waitress on the ass. Neither are good, but they also don't deserve to be described as equivalent.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#223
post #6

>the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram. This week they asked: “Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?” One reporter “confess[ed] that I am worried about Telegram. Other than private messaging, people love to use Telegram for group chats — up to 200,000 people can meet inside a Telegram ch…

> Do it if $5 is pocket money for you. If not for this then for something else he have done.

But what if in a few years Greenwald falls (further) from grace and you find yourself in hot water for having financed him? Better use a prepaid card.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#224
post #6

>the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram. This week they asked: “Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?” One reporter “confess[ed] that I am worried about Telegram. Other than private messaging, people love to use Telegram for group chats — up to 200,000 people can meet inside a Telegram ch…

God I'm pretty lefty but "problematic" is becoming... problematic. On top of that, just completely asinine tech reporting is becoming problematic. Bloomberg supermicro? Never retracted, lead reporter on it is now BBG's cyber reporting czar. NYT's NSA hacked Baltimore author? Came out with that smooth brained "Jetbrains == SolarWinds" story. The wear and tear from a complex field only getting more complex, it governin…

While these reporters no doubt identify with the left, and I certainly don't, this "I can't handle people talking about things in places where I can't hear and record them" attitude is one of the least progressive mainstream ideas in recent memory and is not something I associate with progressives at all. Feels a lot more like small-mindedness.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#225
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know these things are allowed to be something other than all or nothing, right? You can hold the stance that WSB fiasco is idiotic scaremongering while also acknowledging that there are other internet mobs that do real harm. Because when it comes to WSB I completely agree with you.

My point, well I have more than one really, they are 1) if these evil mobs are really any semblance of a threat, pointing at them every time a blue check decides to go after ideological opponents desensitizes us to it, and 2) the only prominent examples of what you're saying exists and is a danger are perpetrated by the people reminding us of this ever present danger. You can't defend baseless attacks against things…

No that's fine, I think we're actually in agreement. I want also want the two disassociated! It just seems like whenever deplatforming comes up like this people's gut reaction is to say that its bad in absolute terms and that getting rid of the very worst who do real harm is the same as silencing political views you don't like. I absolutely do not want to give off the impression that I approve of the WSB scaremongering. They're a vulgar bunch but it's all in good fun and self deprecation.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#226
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I agree, I think it's possible for those entities to become so massive that they become de facto public entities and ought to be regulated as such. FWIW I said "fully private" specifically with organization "quasi-government power" in mind since there is none of that involved here and I didn't think it worth getting into there. That said, I disagree with you that mere size at all makes a company quasi-governm…

> I disagree with you that mere size at all makes a company quasi-governmental and in particular disagree with your chosen example of social media. It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. I'm not aware of any utility companies with such pow…

> It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. I'm not aware of any utility companies with such power.

And most of the cases I'm aware of where they've used that power is to suppress viral lies, which is a good thing. Even then they were late pulling the trigger.

> Moreover, social media introduces an entirely new dimension: it's multicast. Your telegraph or phone call conveyed information to 1 other party at a time. A Tweet can be seen by millions or more. The volume of communication on social media dwarfs that of other channels.

And that's what's dangerous about them: the filter got removed from broadcasting. People like to talk about filters like they're bad things, but that's not true. They're in fact a vitally necessary function to increase the signal-to-noise ratio (for instance: what is peer review? Answer: a filter). when you don't have filters, ideas spread in proportion to how quickly they can multiply, which isn't a good thing, because a lot of fast-spreading ideas are akin to cancer, and do nothing except weaken or kill the host.

If Twitter's to avoid killing its host, it needs an immune system to filter out those cancerous ideas.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of people, myself included, who do approach the issue in the way you're describing. But there's also a vocal set of people who... well, it's hard to come up with a charitable view of what their position is. If Taylor Lorenz is legitimately concerned about the dangers of online witchhunts, what in the world is she doing posting names and photos of everyone who was in the room at the time of this incident…

Doesn't Twitter have an anti-doxxing policy?

"Doxxing" is poorly defined enough that I think it's best to just avoid the term. They have a policy against involuntary disclosure of private information (https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info...), but names, physical appearances, and conversations from other apps aren't considered private information.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#228
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like this problem is hard. I want free and open communication as much as the next person it's not so easy. I want free and open communication as long as it does inconvenience me or those in power? Also remember: public groups and channels on Telegram are public . You can join them and report them if you want. What you cannot is join my family group and start judging my kids based on what they said one afternoon whe…

> I want free and open communication as long as it does inconvenience me or those in power? I'll assume you mean doesn't but that's not at all what I'm saying. It's easy to take an absolute stance as long as your blind to or don't care about the consequences of it. > What you cannot is join my family group and start judging my kids based on what they said one afternoon when they were angry. What? I don't think I woul…

> What? I don't think I would want to be in your family group chats but regardless I'm specifically talking about huge public/semi-public spaces.

The places are public. The police can go there. Even Telegram itself take down public groups that incite violence.

They just don't kick people out for describing themselves as retards.

This doesn't seem to be about "the same group of awful people that seem to poison everything they touch" anymore. Now they want to take away anything they don't feel they control thoroughly, hence the broad attacks on Telegram ans Signal.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we see the rise of citizen journalism and independent media. Mainstream media is completely biased and not trustable. Matt Taibbi keeps stressing the need for a unbiased news site but if it has corporate backing, it will eventually become compromised.

I think I am with you on your first sentence being a way forward. Substack is pretty interesting in that regard. I run into some issues with your use of Taibbi as a good anecdote though for unbiased reporting, and I won't touch your MSM comment. I think Taibbi is a competent, honest, and candid reporter. That said, I was around during his coverage of GS in the Rolling Stone in '08-'09. Is he good at speaking truth to…

He is certainly biased, but he at least is willing to write unpopular things. Most of these NYT-times will write anything to get more twitter follows.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#230
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem the conversation was private at all. Nor did the Stasi traffic in ruining reputations for perceived bad behavior. They arrested political dissenters by the thousands. Andreesen is a billionaire who would, at worst, have to apologize on twitter and continue his life of total freedom. Did anyone consider Donald Sterling to be a victim?

The "Stasi-like" remark was "Stasi-like citizen surveillance ". The latter was conveniently omitted upthread. No one is arguing that this is Stasi-like in that the outcome was arrest. > They arrested political dissenters by the thousands. Andreesen is a billionaire who would, at worst, have to apologize on twitter and continue his life of total freedom. These kinds of arguments would crop up in the cancel culture deb…

Come on. You don't use a loaded phrase like "Stasi-like" unless you're implying something nefarious. It seems monumentally hypocritical for a guy who's entire career is based on having access to other people's private communications. Lorenz's beat is heavily based on following social media trends including stuff like wallstreetbets which was the topic of the clubhouse chat. Greenwald is ascribing a lot of intent that he can't back up.
Post reply on HN