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The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

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Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#151

Post by mr_overalls »

hajile wrote: post #136
ravi-delia wrote: post #58

I'd definitely be surprised if a significant portion of homosexuality wasn't environmental, but to my knowledge there is a degree of heritability shown in twin studies. Actually reading the article shows that they found several genes that each contribute, but no single gene. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone, considering that almost every complex trait is somewhat affected by a huge number of genes each tweaking…

Identical twin studies point away from genetics very hard. Pretty much all genetic anomalies will affect both identical twins 100% of the time. The fact that it's less than 40% points much more to environmental effects rather than genes.

A concordance rate of 40% actually points to a near-even split between heritable and non-heritable factors.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#152

Post by adamredwoods »

Consider studies done on penguins: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229884855_Homosexua...

> Some homosexually displaying males eventually paired with females, but such males were significantly slower in heterosexual pairing than males that did not display homosexually. In two extraordinary cases, same-sex pairs learned each other’s calls, an essential step in the pairing process. The frequency of such pairs was much lower than among displaying couples, significantly so for males. Finally, the frequency of homosexually displaying pairs was significantly lower than expected from random assortment of displaying birds, for both males and females. We examined possible explanations for same-sex display and its biological significance. A population sex-ratio bias in favor of males and high concentration of male sex hormones may help to explain non-reproductive homosexually displaying pairs.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#153

Post by francisofascii »

An interesting finding is the fraternal birth order effect. The more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be homosexual (for men). Seems to indicate in-utero mechanisms are involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male...

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#154

Post by ian-g »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #94

People latched onto the idea that sexuality is genetically determined because it seemed like the only viable way to defend themselves against rampant religious bigotry and oppression. It was a rope dangling into the well you were trapped in, and the well was filling with acid, but if you could just manage to climb that rope then you'd make it out. The reasoning went something like "if I can prove that sexuality is ge…

I think there's also an element of constructed boxes to put people into as well.

Would I rather say to you, some random person, "I'm gay" and move on? Or do I want to get into "I'm gay, it's complicated" and have to explain more? Most of the time I just don't want to get into it further.

And I've had conversations with some folks who outwardly say they're straight but privately have described themselves pretty similarly to "Well mostly straight, it's complicated."

It's tiring, and I'd like it if we all came to an agreement that it's complicated, the edges don't line up nicely, and we should all just accept that it's weird. It'd make my life way easier

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#155

Post by bsder »

est31 wrote: post #149
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #94

People latched onto the idea that sexuality is genetically determined because it seemed like the only viable way to defend themselves against rampant religious bigotry and oppression. It was a rope dangling into the well you were trapped in, and the well was filling with acid, but if you could just manage to climb that rope then you'd make it out. The reasoning went something like "if I can prove that sexuality is ge…

I agree that one shouldn't support the genetic predetermination theory of sexuality just as a defense for oppression. That's not how science should be done. That being said, I still doubt that people really have a choice over their sexuality. Otherwise there would be far more stories from people who have "successfully" turned straight or something, instead of stories from people who have tried to suppress their true…

> That being said, I still doubt that people really have a choice over their sexuality.

My response to people who argue about this is generally: "So, when did you decide you liked long legs more than large breasts?" Choose whatever pairing of sexual characteristics drives home the choice to the person involved.

Like so many things about "sexuality", at some point we notice them, but rarely do we actively choose them.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#156

Post by BurningFrog »

readams wrote: post #53

It's unlikely there's a gene that codes for being gay. Homosexuality instead is better thought of as more like why men have nipples. Obviously the nipples are not useful to the reproductive success of men, but genetics and natural selection are messy and there's likely no easy path to not having them in men while maintaining their function in women. For homosexuality, the systems of sexual attraction in the brain nee…

> We don't measure the worth of a person by their reproductive success.

We don't measure human worth that way, but evolution measures nothing else!

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#157

Post by netizen-9748 »

est31 wrote: post #149
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #94

People latched onto the idea that sexuality is genetically determined because it seemed like the only viable way to defend themselves against rampant religious bigotry and oppression. It was a rope dangling into the well you were trapped in, and the well was filling with acid, but if you could just manage to climb that rope then you'd make it out. The reasoning went something like "if I can prove that sexuality is ge…

I agree that one shouldn't support the genetic predetermination theory of sexuality just as a defense for oppression. That's not how science should be done. That being said, I still doubt that people really have a choice over their sexuality. Otherwise there would be far more stories from people who have "successfully" turned straight or something, instead of stories from people who have tried to suppress their true…

Frankly, we don't have much of a choice in anything.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#158

Post by renewiltord »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #94

People latched onto the idea that sexuality is genetically determined because it seemed like the only viable way to defend themselves against rampant religious bigotry and oppression. It was a rope dangling into the well you were trapped in, and the well was filling with acid, but if you could just manage to climb that rope then you'd make it out. The reasoning went something like "if I can prove that sexuality is ge…

Amusingly, before I moved to America and understood it, I thought "sexuality is a choice" was a defence of homosexuality because I believed Americans believed "humans should be free to make choices about themselves". Funny, eh?

But it seemed obvious to me. After all, maybe some people are genetically predisposed to eating babies. Doesn't mean I'm going to be okay with that. Sucks for them but they can either suppress the baby eating or go to prison.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#159

Post by pessimizer »

est31 wrote: post #149
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #94

People latched onto the idea that sexuality is genetically determined because it seemed like the only viable way to defend themselves against rampant religious bigotry and oppression. It was a rope dangling into the well you were trapped in, and the well was filling with acid, but if you could just manage to climb that rope then you'd make it out. The reasoning went something like "if I can prove that sexuality is ge…

I agree that one shouldn't support the genetic predetermination theory of sexuality just as a defense for oppression. That's not how science should be done. That being said, I still doubt that people really have a choice over their sexuality. Otherwise there would be far more stories from people who have "successfully" turned straight or something, instead of stories from people who have tried to suppress their true…

You don't have a choice about anything you like. The closest you can get to choosing what you like is to decide that you want to like something, and expose yourself to it enough that it starts to grow on you (i.e. you find something in it you like and use that to reinterpret the rest that you were negative or indifferent towards.)
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