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NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

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Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#161
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to be a free speech absolutist myself back in Snowden times FWIW, there is no reason you shouldn't still be a Free Speech absolutist (I still am) so long as you don't fall for the disinformation that Free Speech means freedom from social consequences. When individuals or other fully private entities decide they don't like someone's speech and choose to not associate or support that person/entity any longer,…

> other fully private entities While I agree, I think it's possible for those entities to become so massive that they become de facto public entities and ought to be regulated as such. The prominent example being social media: such a tiny handful of companies are responsible for such an enormous portion of our collective speech that they are de facto public squares. In such cases, these technically-private entities s…

>While I agree, I think it's possible for those entities to become so massive that they become de facto public entities and ought to be regulated as such.

FWIW I said "fully private" specifically with organization "quasi-government power" in mind since there is none of that involved here and I didn't think it worth getting into there. That said, I disagree with you that mere size at all makes a company quasi-governmental, and in particular disagree with your chosen example of social media. That's actually a really weird one to choose compared to classic natural monopolies like physical utilities, particularly when they are in fact directly leaning on government power (like wireless telecoms that have a government force backed monopoly on sections of the limited useful electromagnetic spectrum).

>such a tiny handful of companies are responsible for such an enormous portion of our collective speech

"Responsible"? Every single method of speech we had in 1791, 1891, or 1991 is still with us, far easier and cheaper than ever, along with a host more. I don't agree that expanding the venues of speech in a positive-sum way somehow turns a place into a public square at all. The TOS limits are very, very loose, but even if they weren't why should that be a matter for government to step in? Why should people not have to put a few bucks where their mouths are if they want to break other people's rules on other people's property?

I do think that quasi-government power is a thing, and agree with some of the older SCOTUS cases vs their more recent pruning back. But my concern would be more at the level of physical fiber connections or access to payment systems. With skill, effort and money people should be able to get put up their message without threat of violence, but I'm not at all convinced that needs to be in any specific private venue (disclaimer, I don't actually have a twitter, facebook, or any other such service account at all, never did, which may bias my view on how necessary they are).

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A reporter lied and attempted to slam a public figure That... seems kinda spun. The source material isn't so damning. Taylor Lorenz was on the call, and tweeted: "@pmarca just openly using the r-slur on Clubhouse tonight and not one other person in the room called him on it or saying anything" Then later when she was corrected that it wasn't Andreessen but someone else, replied: "Thanks for clarifying that it was F…

Retarded is not a slur. Never was. People keep picking arbitrary words and saying they're "offensive", but there's no reason why. I have heard kids call each other "mentally challenged" and "developmentally delayed", I kid you not. Younger kids have trouble pronouncing those, so maybe that's something? Anyway, I refuse to partake in the euphemism treadmill.

My Midwestern upbringing was certainly peppered with people using ‘retard’ as a slur, so... mileage may vary?

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A reporter lied and attempted to slam a public figure That... seems kinda spun. The source material isn't so damning. Taylor Lorenz was on the call, and tweeted: "@pmarca just openly using the r-slur on Clubhouse tonight and not one other person in the room called him on it or saying anything" Then later when she was corrected that it wasn't Andreessen but someone else, replied: "Thanks for clarifying that it was F…

Are you kidding? 1 public figure, a freaking journalist, reads something and immediately decides they need to do a hot-take-cancel-op on a public figure they didn't like, libeling him in the process. Greenwald takes a much more measured approach, he writes a blog, like 1000 words, explaining his thoughts. There's a non-thinking person on one side and an articulate person on the other, and you want to denounce the art…

Is it articulate to immediately compare your opponents to the stasi? Not really, its pretty bland and typical for internet name calling - writing more words doesn't make something high art.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Greenwald points out, these journalists work at major outlets and have huge followings which they can use - and have used - to shut down speech. Cancel culture is real and we must not allow it to be tolerated. I've been told that I'm "problematic" and should reconsider blogging... because I recommended a $40 pair of hair shears. Greenwald is being a bit melodramatic, but his substance isn't wrong. A reporter lied…

> A reporter lied and attempted to slam a public figure That... seems kinda spun. The source material isn't so damning. Taylor Lorenz was on the call, and tweeted: "@pmarca just openly using the r-slur on Clubhouse tonight and not one other person in the room called him on it or saying anything" Then later when she was corrected that it wasn't Andreessen but someone else, replied: "Thanks for clarifying that it was F…

You're giving way more than the benefit of the doubt here, if I had to guess I'd say you are doing it willfully. At least you acknowledge your bias so credit where credit is due I guess.

Accusing someone of saying something they didn't say is called "libel" or "slander" depending on the medium with which it is done. To call that out, publish it, and for people to enjoy that published work, that is a far cry away from having a stated mission to go after, expose and deplatform people sharing ideas you do not like. You use the word "cancelling" much more liberally than it's contemporary definition applies, I'd say you're stretching it beyond its elasticity in order to make an argument that doesn't exist to defend an indefensible act.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Greenwald points out, these journalists work at major outlets and have huge followings which they can use - and have used - to shut down speech. Cancel culture is real and we must not allow it to be tolerated. I've been told that I'm "problematic" and should reconsider blogging... because I recommended a $40 pair of hair shears. Greenwald is being a bit melodramatic, but his substance isn't wrong. A reporter lied…

> A reporter lied and attempted to slam a public figure That... seems kinda spun. The source material isn't so damning. Taylor Lorenz was on the call, and tweeted: "@pmarca just openly using the r-slur on Clubhouse tonight and not one other person in the room called him on it or saying anything" Then later when she was corrected that it wasn't Andreessen but someone else, replied: "Thanks for clarifying that it was F…

Her previous tweet "Try and block me now pmarca" makes it much harder to dismiss this as just an unfortunate mistake in attribution. In context it very much appears like as if she was looking for anything she could spin to portray Marc in a negative light.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#166
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to be a free speech absolutist myself back in Snowden times FWIW, there is no reason you shouldn't still be a Free Speech absolutist (I still am) so long as you don't fall for the disinformation that Free Speech means freedom from social consequences. When individuals or other fully private entities decide they don't like someone's speech and choose to not associate or support that person/entity any longer,…

> but meanwhile in America Twitter bans people or the NY Times refuses to publish literally anything anyone sends so they're censoring too!" more realistically, a Twitter mob harasses your employer until you are fired, unemployable in your industry, and lose all of your friends. > so long as you don't fall for the disinformation that Free Speech means freedom from social consequences. There are consequences, like cor…

There's also the question of why employers think that caving to Twitter outrage is good or necessary for business.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#167
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He literally quit The Intercept because he was furious that someone tried to give him edits. He said that he founded the site with the explicit agreement that no one would be allowed to edit his words. EDIT: Resignation letter here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/my-resignation-from-the-int... "The Intercept’s editors, in violation of my contractual right of editorial freedom, censored an article I wrote this week"…

>You can click through and the article in question was Greenwald attempting to give oxygen to GOP propaganda about Hunter Biden. Photos of drug fueled sex romps with prostitutes by the president's son are newsworthy. Same goes for his investments and work in foreign countries. The lack of investigative journalism into Hunter Biden is the product of something far worse than what Greenwald is covering. This has zero to…

The argument was never about whether a story like that was news worthy or not. The argument was - if your article is saying/implying that the then former VP was complicit in a financial scheme to benefit him after publicly saying he wasn't, then you should show proof and not innuendos (leave innuendos to tabloids). Or if you are saying journalists are choosing to ignore the story, then show how

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#168
post #68

Greenwalds tactics aside, do we really consider someone saying the word "retard" in a private discussion newsworthy? More importantly it wasnt even reported correctly and appears to be the result of Taylor Lorenz having an axe to grind with Marc Andreessen.

AS far as I can tell, it wasn’t even a news story. It was a tweet. And then later clarified after brought to her attention. I find it hard to believe that it justifies this long blog.

This is the first thing I’ve seen him wrote in years. And it is horrible.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#169
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A NYT reporter posted an ostensibly private conversation of absolutely no newsworthy value for the sole purpose of ruining some peoples' lifes, got the facts completely wrong, posted a non-apology, and then played the victim. At best, this is bad tabloid journalism. > And here he is calling the situation "Stasi-like". He is calling it stasi like because people routinely get blacklisted when this happens to them - the…

Doesn't seem the conversation was private at all. Nor did the Stasi traffic in ruining reputations for perceived bad behavior. They arrested political dissenters by the thousands. Andreesen is a billionaire who would, at worst, have to apologize on twitter and continue his life of total freedom. Did anyone consider Donald Sterling to be a victim?

The "Stasi-like" remark was "Stasi-like citizen surveillance". The latter was conveniently omitted upthread. No one is arguing that this is Stasi-like in that the outcome was arrest.

> They arrested political dissenters by the thousands. Andreesen is a billionaire who would, at worst, have to apologize on twitter and continue his life of total freedom.

These kinds of arguments would crop up in the cancel culture debates, and the same rebuttal applies: that a billionaire is able to survive some particular injustice doesn't lessen the injustice. Notably, the overwhelming majority of people who are cancelled are not famous billionaires (and thus you don't hear about them and there is probably no outcry to right the wrong, although there are exceptions).

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#170
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good journalism is extremely important but much of what we see today is a mix of extreme bias, outright lies and outrage manufacturing. I haven't seen Greenwald do much other than outrage manufacturing in some years. I guess it's paying the bills.

[flagged]

He was writing essentially the same articles defending Al-Qaeda and ISIS supporters from overreaching prosecution and media histrionics. It's shocking how he has free time to report on Bolsonaro if he's simultaneously a Nazi, ISIS and Al-Qaeda guy.
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