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NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

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Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems to seriously scare some folks that there are places where they cannot deplatform whoever they want for anything. If it's really possible for "some folks" to deplatform "whoever they want" "for anything", why is this power not available to me or anyone I know? I know it's glib, but... come on folks. The anti-anti-anti-cancel-culture hyperbole is officially out of control. It should be possible to have a leg…

As Greenwald points out, these journalists work at major outlets and have huge followings which they can use - and have used - to shut down speech. Cancel culture is real and we must not allow it to be tolerated. I've been told that I'm "problematic" and should reconsider blogging... because I recommended a $40 pair of hair shears. Greenwald is being a bit melodramatic, but his substance isn't wrong. A reporter lied…

> A reporter lied and attempted to slam a public figure

That... seems kinda spun. The source material isn't so damning. Taylor Lorenz was on the call, and tweeted:

"@pmarca just openly using the r-slur on Clubhouse tonight and not one other person in the room called him on it or saying anything"

Then later when she was corrected that it wasn't Andreessen but someone else, replied:

"Thanks for clarifying that it was Felicia saying that word, rather than Marc as many in the room heard it. I hope you can understand how some people in the room felt hearing it"

I mean, as I (someone who reads and values Lorenz's work) read it, she was offended (more, it seems, at the casual use of "retarded" going unchallenged than at the specific speaker), and tweeted about it, but made a mistake in attribution which she recognized (while pointing out that her original offense was that the word wasn't challenged).

And Greenwald wrote like 1000 words to go after her. And his essay, not her tweet, is at the top of HN right now.

So... who's cancelling who here?

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of substance, journalists should have enough integrity to not title an article "Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?". "Misinformation" is among the list of grossly overused words in online discourse. It has no meaning, other than to exist as the boogyman. "Hot Spot". Another sensationalist phrase used to scare readers into thinking anyone that even slightly disagrees with their poi…

> Regardless of substance, journalists should have enough integrity to not title an article "Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?". How about this one: "The Journalistic Tattletale and Censorship Industry Suffers Several Well-Deserved Blows"

One is aimed at crushing ordinary peoples possibility to send private messages.

The other is aimed at preventing that.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#104

It's interesting how polemic Greenwald has become, bringing with it the same magnitude of reality denial as the actors he is going after. A title like "The Journalistic Tattletale and Censorship Industry Suffers Several Well-Deserved Blows" coming from an investigative journalist like himself really sounds like a sore loser's version of "investigative journalism needs to die if it doesn't share my narrative and polit…

> I used to be a free speech absolutist myself back in Snowden times, but having seeing the flip side of anonymous, unverified, amplified and maliciously orchestrated communication of lies by unknown actors myself over the past few years

This is a strange lesson to take away, not least of all because we've seen a lot of egregious, potent, and dangerous lies from credible, verified institutions including the former POTUS, prominent newspapers, and other important cultural institutions. Further, it seems strange to suggest that "anonymous lies" are somehow more dangerous than lies by verified parties--pretty much by definition this is incorrect since a lie by some credible institution does more damage than a lie by someone with no credibility at all.

I don't know how someone can look at American politics and politicians (never mind cultural institutions) over the last ~decade and conclude that these people are fit to regulate Americans' speech. Indeed, how can anyone praise democracy without also valuing its prerequisite: free speech. I suspect people don't want a democracy, they want their own candidate to be elected--hardly a noble or democratic sentiment.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#105
post #47

It's interesting how polemic Greenwald has become, bringing with it the same magnitude of reality denial as the actors he is going after. A title like "The Journalistic Tattletale and Censorship Industry Suffers Several Well-Deserved Blows" coming from an investigative journalist like himself really sounds like a sore loser's version of "investigative journalism needs to die if it doesn't share my narrative and polit…

He has absolutely always been like this. His rambling screeds used to be posted to reddit pretty constantly long before he published Snowden. This NYT reporter made a mistake and posted an incorrect accusation on her twitter, that she later corrected. Big mistake, but she owned it. And here he is calling the situation "Stasi-like".

A NYT reporter posted an ostensibly private conversation of absolutely no newsworthy value for the sole purpose of ruining some peoples' lifes, got the facts completely wrong, posted a non-apology, and then played the victim. At best, this is bad tabloid journalism.

> And here he is calling the situation "Stasi-like".

He is calling it stasi like because people routinely get blacklisted when this happens to them - they lose their job, their friends, and become unemployable. In fact, blacklisting is the exact point of this behavior!

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#106
post #6

>the Times’ tech team quickly donned their hall-monitor goggles and Stasi notebooks to warn that the Bad People had migrated to Signal and Telegram. This week they asked: “Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?” One reporter “confess[ed] that I am worried about Telegram. Other than private messaging, people love to use Telegram for group chats — up to 200,000 people can meet inside a Telegram ch…

> It seems to seriously scare some folks that there are places where they cannot deplatform whoever they want for anything.

Jeez. At least give your opponents a charitable take on their argument. This stuff isn't some make-believe silencing of online Socratic circles that just happen to have "non-approved" viwes or "wrongthink". I don't think you get how scary some of these mobs are. They're online witch-hunts fueled by hate and the belief that their marks are the cause of the bad in the world. And when you add actually crazy people into the mix it bleeds over into the real world. They will doxx you, stalk you, find every public picture of you, your friends, your family online and send them to you with death threats. They will Photoshop those pictures so it looks like you're being tortured or raped and pass them around. If they find your address you'll start getting them in the mail and eventually messages with pictures of your house.

Like this problem is hard. I want free and open communication as much as the next person it's not so easy. Trading other people's safety for my liberty doesn't sound quite as noble.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#108

It must surely be some Internet Law that people who spend most of their time in bubbles where they converse with the worst of their opponents make the worst arguments to people outside the bubble. So, if you take an otherwise decent smart person and place her in a spot where all her enemies are vitriolic morons, she will start to apply vitriolic rhetoric. Bring this person out of that universe and into the normal wor…

The media used this approach of magnifying the voices of violent rioters across the country while providing political cover, then no longer covering it and sharply condemning Republicans doing half as much.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?" article doesn't actually demand (or even propose) censorship as asserted by Greenwald, as far as I can tell. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/technology/personaltech/t... > So what’s your take? Are you concerned? > KEVIN Honestly, not really? and > I’m not as worried about Signal. Similar to WhatsApp, Signal set a limit so that you can forward messa…

Regardless of substance, journalists should have enough integrity to not title an article "Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot?". "Misinformation" is among the list of grossly overused words in online discourse. It has no meaning, other than to exist as the boogyman. "Hot Spot". Another sensationalist phrase used to scare readers into thinking anyone that even slightly disagrees with their poi…

To be clear, journalists approximately never get to pick the title. Editors do that. Who should also have integrity, of course, but the clickbait incentives are very strong...

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#110
post #47

It's interesting how polemic Greenwald has become, bringing with it the same magnitude of reality denial as the actors he is going after. A title like "The Journalistic Tattletale and Censorship Industry Suffers Several Well-Deserved Blows" coming from an investigative journalist like himself really sounds like a sore loser's version of "investigative journalism needs to die if it doesn't share my narrative and polit…

He has absolutely always been like this. His rambling screeds used to be posted to reddit pretty constantly long before he published Snowden. This NYT reporter made a mistake and posted an incorrect accusation on her twitter, that she later corrected. Big mistake, but she owned it. And here he is calling the situation "Stasi-like".

"Stasi-like" is an extremely hyperbolic way to describe the situation. However, I think "big mistake, but she owned it" is far too forgiving a response.

She is a NYT reporter - a profession which trades on trust - and clearly uses her Twitter profile as an extension of her profession. She used that platform to make a false accusation regarding a member of an event of little-to-no public interest using details taken entirely out of context. That speaks volumes about her intent. Instead of retracting it, she posted a "clarification" and in the same post continued to grandstand about how the imagined infraction was wrong and talk down to the accused.

A post where she "owned it" would look something like this: "Earlier I said ___. I have since discovered that I was incorrect. What actually happened was ___. I'm sorry for my mistake and I will make an effort to do better going forward." What actually happened was worlds apart.

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