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Rust Foundation: Hello, World

foundation.rust-lang.org

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Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#131

Post by Arnavion »

wtetzner wrote: post #105
idubrov wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some extensive (self-assesment :) ) experience building this kind of application, and my answer would be "no, but maybe" (I was one of the first engineers & architect on our zero to ~500k codebase). Some of the arbitrary, random things I've learned: 1. Given how nice and powerful language is, Rust works relatively well with less experienced engineers. Potentially. You can build very nice APIs which are straigh…

> Turned out, strings are not that cheap to clone if all you have is a bunch of strings. Yeah, if you're doing a lot of cloning, you'll probably run into performance issues at some point. A common way to solve that problem is usually to use references instead of cloning. Of course, writing your code that way takes more work/thought/planning.

Or, to get the computational equivalent of what Java is doing (immutable, interned strings), use a Rust string interning library like what servo uses [1], or just `Arc`

[1]: https://docs.rs/string_cache/

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#132

Post by iso8859-1 »

yannoninator wrote: post #129

Just as crazypython said, it seems that the power has shifted from Mozilla and the community to big corporations on the future of Rust. This is worrying to me in that engineers are naively selling their souls to big corporations just to work on Rust. I'm glad for the formation of the foundation, even though I hear that even Facebook (although not on the board yet) are looking for engineers to work on the Rust compile…

No language has ever been ruined by large corporations. Languages are too far removed from society to be affected by this.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#133

Post by hobofan »

ChrisSD wrote: post #109
staticassertion wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla was sort of de-facto the steward of the language up until recently. They stupidly fired the teams behind their most promising R&D project and lost any semblance of control over it.

No, Rust has been independent since Rust 1.0. Mozilla only provided free legal advice (+trademarks, etc) and employed some team members but they didn't have control.

Not hard control, but I think they had a pretty big impact on where Rust headed (not in direction, but prioritization), even in the 1.x days, though more in core ecosystem than in the language itself. E.g. I doubt Rust would be in it's dominant position regarding WASM, if it weren't for Mozilla.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#134

Post by jiayounokim »

yannoninator wrote: post #129

Just as crazypython said, it seems that the power has shifted from Mozilla and the community to big corporations on the future of Rust. This is worrying to me in that engineers are naively selling their souls to big corporations just to work on Rust. I'm glad for the formation of the foundation, even though I hear that even Facebook (although not on the board yet) are looking for engineers to work on the Rust compile…

Code is code. Big corporations or small corporation, if the language benefits from it, its all good.

React is from FB, they have engineering talent as such Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#135

Post by pornel »

pdpi wrote: post #22
crazypython wrote: post #15

The board's vote seems to be heavily biased in favor of large corporations, with half the seats for them, 2 for the community, and 3 for "project areas." Contrast this with the governance of GCC, which has all of them as community members or project areas.

I can't find much in the way of Rust credentials for the rest of the members but, looking at their profiles, Nell (MS's representative) used to manage crates.io while at Mozilla, and Lars (Google) used to manage the Servo team. While they are technically representing corporate interests, they're also heavily invested in the community.

That doesn't mean much long term. If they disagree with the corporations they represent, they will be replaced.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#136

Post by yudlejoza »

jrimbault wrote: post #108
teraflop wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the fact that ripgrep contains more lines of code is related to the fact that it has more features, and not just about the language it's written in? https://beyondgrep.com/feature-comparison/ Also, it's kind of pointless to compare lines of code given that both projects get large amounts of their functionality from dependencies. For instance, the GNU grep repository doesn't actually contain any regex-matching c…

The "proper" comparison (that would still be horribly misguided) would be against the "core" crate in ripgrep. And that's only 5kloc, a lot of it from the "app.rs" (3kloc) and "args.rs" (1.2kloc) which is almost only declarative usage strings. The "actual" code of ripgrep is accross its multiple support crates, which the community largely benefits from having since those are general enough to be almost foundational t…

I'm trolling because there is no doubt in the mind of Rust fanboys that if ripgrep was a feature-for-feature replica of grep, in some parallel hypothetical universe, it would for sure have less code-size complexity.

Got it.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#137

Post by staticassertion »

ChrisSD wrote: post #109
staticassertion wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla was sort of de-facto the steward of the language up until recently. They stupidly fired the teams behind their most promising R&D project and lost any semblance of control over it.

No, Rust has been independent since Rust 1.0. Mozilla only provided free legal advice (+trademarks, etc) and employed some team members but they didn't have control.

I wasn't implying that Mozilla had explicit control over the project, but to say that it just "employed some team members" really undersells things. They employed critical team members, including as I recall the majority of the core team. They were also leveraging the project for R&D, allowing for fast feedback loops between core members and Servo developers.

Rust always, thankfully, made sure to be independent of Mozilla, but it would be silly to think that they had no influence over the project and that by firing major contributors they've lost that.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#138

Post by ChrisSD »

hobofan wrote: post #133
ChrisSD wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Rust has been independent since Rust 1.0. Mozilla only provided free legal advice (+trademarks, etc) and employed some team members but they didn't have control.

Not hard control, but I think they had a pretty big impact on where Rust headed (not in direction, but prioritization), even in the 1.x days, though more in core ecosystem than in the language itself. E.g. I doubt Rust would be in it's dominant position regarding WASM, if it weren't for Mozilla.

That was only because they had engineers working on it. The foundation changes nothing in that regard. If Mozilla were to hire engineers to work on bringing Rust to a new platform then it would have the same effect now.

I don't want to downplay Mozilla's many contributions to Rust in any way but I also acknowledge they worked hard to ensure Rust operated independently of any organisation, including themselves.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#140

Post by nahuel0x »

coder543 wrote: post #122
zozbot234 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those are intrinsically IO bound. Rust has a great async story compared to other languages, which benefits IO-bound workloads even more so than CPU-busy ones.

I disagree. Saying that it is "great" is really overselling it at this point, unless the languages you're comparing to are mainly C or C++. I would also toss Ruby in that category for now, but they seem to be working on making async better with Ruby 3+. When compared to Python, JavaScript, or C#... Rust's language support for async isn't really that impressive to most developers, although the implementation has some…

You are right, but this project (or a similar one) who uses WASM based rust nano processes has the potential to leave Go and Erlang in the dust: https://github.com/lunatic-solutions/lunatic
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