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I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

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Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#81

Post by verst »

I'm literally about to do this.

Switching from (Senior) Developer Advocate to Software Engineer (2) at Microsoft. Both jobs are on the same ladder / pay scale and in the same engineering org. I was promoted just last September and am effectively undoing my promotion.

I had never worked as a SWE/SDE 100% of my time. I have a Math & CS degree and have built lots of random integrations, apps, and created technical architecture designs / product requirements.

I realized I enjoy projects where I get to code or dive deep into technology best. I also want a role that is easier understood by industry across companies.

The hope is that I can perform well to quickly get promoted back to my current job level (and compensation).

The sacrifice is worth it to me.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#82

Post by arcturus17 »

cldellow wrote: post #58
jbay808 wrote: post #6

Kind of frustrating to see this framed as a "demotion". But it's great to see someone starting over in a new career track that suits them better.

> demotion (n) - a reduction in rank or status But it is a demotion! I think perhaps we view that as a negative thing when it's done as a punishment, or due to factors outside one's control. But in this case, she chose it (indeed, worked for it!), so she must think it was worth it. Her rank is literally demoted. She went from being high on the job ladder ("Director") to low on the job ladder ("Associate"), reflecting…

As I said in another comment, I completely agree with this.

I guess you and I are taking a more literal definition of demotion, whereas others may interpret it through the lens of the feelings of shame that would normally come with it, or perhaps even through a more "anarchist" view that no man is ever above any other.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#83

Post by giantg2 »

gryn wrote: post #23
giantg2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say just tough it out with the goal to F.I.R.E.

not all software developpers work in the US.

Implying that FIRE participants are only in the US is just as wrong as assuming all developers are in the US.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#84

Post by falcor84 »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #20
progre wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always fought to stay a developer as well. It seems that as soon as I know a codebase well enough to be really productive, there is a "team lead" or "scrum master" role waiting. Once or twice I've even fallen for it but the result have always been more meetings, less customer interaction, more responsibility and somehow less power over the product. Pay has stayed the same of course.

Don't ever agree to move up unless you are paid more.

Or unless you're actually looking to get that kind of experience

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#85

Post by ballenf »

CivBase wrote: post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Making a big mistake as a manager can cost the company a lot more than a big mistake as an individual Engineer, Architect or Developer, especially if you consider that the latter roles will catch many of each others' mistakes.

The manager level can result in entire teams quitting, failing to support each other or an atmosphere where catching each others' mistakes is discouraged.

Some jobs are paid based (roughly) on the value they bring and others are paid based on the threat/cost of large mistakes.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#86

Post by tyingq »

CivBase wrote: post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Because Leadership people make policy that rewards Leadership people. Consciously or not.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#87

Post by ryandrake »

progre wrote: post #8
jacobsenscott wrote: post #3

From someone who's spent nearly 20 years trying to stay near the bottom of the org chart, welcome!

I've always fought to stay a developer as well. It seems that as soon as I know a codebase well enough to be really productive, there is a "team lead" or "scrum master" role waiting. Once or twice I've even fallen for it but the result have always been more meetings, less customer interaction, more responsibility and somehow less power over the product. Pay has stayed the same of course.

Then on the other hand, you have unusual guys like me who are trying over and over to get into management, but 20+ years in I'm still at the bottom of the totem pole. It's always the same need-experience-to-get-experience catch-22: "Well, [JOE] already has management experience and you don't so [JOE] is now your manager." It's always a struggle: If you want X and don't want Y, somehow you're always going to be offered Y and have to fight for X.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#89

Post by ignoramous »

Reminds me of a "self-demotion" that worked out well: That of a certain Allan Vermeulen [0] who, by some accounts, was the chief architect of Amazon S3 [1], and by all accounts, an engineer extraordinaire. Vermeulen managed the Platform Services group when he joined [2], and later moved to a CTO role with focus on the then very nascent Web Services initiative [3], but eventually "demoted" himself to an "AWS Engineer" role to actually build key technological pieces that would underpin a lot of distributed systems at AWS [4]. Not bad at all.

[0] https://books.google.co.in/books?id=yG3PAK6ZOucC&pg=PT229

[1] https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2016/03/a-decade-of-innova...

[2] https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=20040418&slug...

[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20091226191003/paulwallis.ulitze...

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVvFVwyElLY

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