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Rust Foundation: Hello, World

foundation.rust-lang.org

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Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#51

Post by nojito »

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

ripgrep does more than vanilla grep.

How is looking at LoC meaningful?

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#52

Post by ChrisSD »

lvass wrote: post #46
ChrisSD wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust is already in Debian's repository. The trademarks haven't been an issue at all.

It seems no one had to rebrand Rust yet, but can you guarantee this will always be the case? Firefox was fine in debian until 2006.

But why? Python has been going for decades without issue. https://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#53

Post by hojjat12000 »

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

> I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust.

So, when you heard that, you thought "LOC"? Not safety, not speed, not features, not FFI, but LOC? why?

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#54

Post by nneonneo »

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

As a Rust developer (not really), after getting sick and tired of hearing about C everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity.

I heard of Linux, an amazing operating system kernel that beats Redox in the dust.

I have never seen Redox source code. I told myself, if I download Linux-on-C and Redox-on-Rust and find out that Linux is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of Redox source code, or even half the code size, I'd be quite impressed, and be willing to take C seriously.

Well guess what, I downloaded the two sources. Redox kernel source code is about 24k LoC. Linux? about 27M.

WTF.

----

In all seriousness, LoC comparisons are absolutely the worst way to compare languages, especially across projects that are completely different in scope and design.

(This was a joking reply in the style of OP's now-flagged comment, which was comparing LoC between ripgrep and grep.)

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#55

Post by jdright »

steveklabnik wrote: post #13

Hey folks! Normally, I am all over these threads answering questions, but I am not on the foundation board and did none of the real work to get this going! The foundation members are unlikely to comment on Hacker News, so if you have big questions you want answered, contacting them via the address on the site is the right way. Personally, I am very excited that this is happening, and really looking forward to the fut…

I would like to raise awareness to a tiny detail:

> February 9th, at 4pm CT.

When using local time zones we should strive to always also add the equivalent GMT time to a global audience - even if this audience will not participate in the meeting, it is good to have an idea of when that is actually happening without needing to go through a timezone converter.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#56

Post by krylon »

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

IIUC, minimum code size was not the top priority of the creator of ripgrep.

And Rust's claim to fame is not that it allows you to get the job done with less code. Its claim is that it allows you to get the job done, but with far fewer memory access issues, without sacrificing runtime efficiency.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#57

Post by Ar-Curunir »

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

You know you can just ignore the Rust talk? And maybe measuring things by how many LoC they require is not the best metric.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#58

Post by Ar-Curunir »

hojjat12000 wrote: post #53
yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

> I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. So, when you heard that, you thought "LOC"? Not safety, not speed, not features, not FFI, but LOC? why?

Maybe because that's the only metric that C is better at (I jest)

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#59

Post by kevincox »

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

You are acting as if these are the same thing. ripgrep has more features than grep and that is going to take more code. At the very least you can drop the printer and ignore crates. You are still looking at twice the code but ripgrep is doing parallel searching so it is obviously going to be more. How much more is hard to say without trying to rewrite one or the other to make this an apples-to-apples comparison.

And even if it results in 1-2x amount of code that is not the end-all metric. How quickly was this code written and how easy is it to maintain? How many bugs does it have?

I mean rust is basically a superset of C (other than having to write "unsafe" everywhere if you use a c-style), so it is hard to dismiss this as wasted noise because if it was wasted wouldn't people have written it like C line-for-line?

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#60

Post by steveklabnik »

jdright wrote: post #55
steveklabnik wrote: post #13

Hey folks! Normally, I am all over these threads answering questions, but I am not on the foundation board and did none of the real work to get this going! The foundation members are unlikely to comment on Hacker News, so if you have big questions you want answered, contacting them via the address on the site is the right way. Personally, I am very excited that this is happening, and really looking forward to the fut…

I would like to raise awareness to a tiny detail: > February 9th, at 4pm CT. When using local time zones we should strive to always also add the equivalent GMT time to a global audience - even if this audience will not participate in the meeting, it is good to have an idea of when that is actually happening without needing to go through a timezone converter.

As I said, not involved, so you should submit this feedback to them. I can try to pass it along, but there's no reason to have me as a middleman.
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