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What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

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Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#231
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I want truth, I read or watch primary source material. Everything else is commentary. For the record, that is completely impractical for reasons so obvious that it's surprising people suggest it with the frequency they do. Take science reporting, for instance. You think science reporting makes too many mistakes, so you're going to just go to the source and read the raw papers instead (a suggestion I've seen doze…

Reading inaccurate information and taking it all seriously still leaves the reader ignorant, it just gives a false illusion of being well-informed. I try to take everything I read with a giant grain of salt while remaining humble and recognizing my own ignorance. If a topic really catches my interest I'll try digging into it by going through primary sources, but otherwise I try to not hold very strong opinions about…

> Reading inaccurate information and taking it all seriously still leaves the reader ignorant, it just gives a false illusion of being well-informed.

> I try to take everything I read with a giant grain of salt while remaining humble and recognizing my own ignorance. If a topic really catches my interest I'll try digging into it by going through primary sources, but otherwise I try to not hold very strong opinions about things I haven't researched extensively. Even after I've done a bit more research on a subject I try to remain humble since there's often many concepts with which I'm unfamiliar.

I think that's a reasonable attitude, though it has the tradeoff of being maybe too indecisive.

> With social media you can now follow many real experts on a wide variety of subjects and they'll happily help explain new and interesting developments in their field. Although even in that situation it's still important to exercise caution, since the illusion of expertise is often abused as a means of advancing some political or financial agenda. Another possibility is that the person explaining the topic might not actually be that well informed or they might've even misunderstood certain parts.

There still aren't enough hours in the day for someone to do even that with any breadth. It's also worth noting that activity is basically journalism with an audience of one.

My general thrust though is to argue against the individualist rejection of institutions, which seems to be really common and I think is pretty misguided. While those institutions always have flaws, there's also good reasons for their existence and use, which are often weirdly forgotten. The reaction to those flaws are often individualist ideas that have even deeper flaws, and often don't actually correct the flaws they're responding to. To make an analogy: it's like a novice programmer reacting to seeing a few dozen Windows bugs and declaring they can't trust Microsoft anymore and they're going to write their own OS instead. That's a huge project, way bigger than one person, and a novice programmer is unlikely to actually do a better job than Microsoft (dispute its flaws and mistakes).

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#232

"And it’s not like any of those outlets are pro-Trump! And neither am I!" What is spectacularly frustrating about today's climate is that one cannot criticize the extremely poor, biased coverage of Trump as illustrated in the article without discussion-ending accusations of being pro Trump and even a Russian asset. This quoted qualifier needed to be in there or else people would forever henceforth refer back to this…

Everything potentially controversial seems to need an “As a ____, ...”

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#233
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is changing the meaning of the word left, and then redefining Democrat as centrist, which is just incorrect.

Do you see a situation where the word left means something different if you are talking about national politics versus international politics as a good idea? Because that is the situation you are in if you won't acknowledge that the Democrats are centrist. What then do you call left leaning politics outside the US? Left left? Foreign Left? Communists? This misuse and redefining of words is one of the reasons we have…

Left and right are relative really. Wanting to shift to a constitutional monarchy was once "the left" or having only Chrisianity as first class citizens in comparison to only Catholicism or Protestantism.

International politics should be contextually anchored essentially. So you say "Party X from country Y is further left than part A from country B." That is putting aside "mixed political aspects". Is a communist country which outlaws homosexuality to the left or right of a free market capitalist country which has gay marriage?

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#234

"And it’s not like any of those outlets are pro-Trump! And neither am I!" What is spectacularly frustrating about today's climate is that one cannot criticize the extremely poor, biased coverage of Trump as illustrated in the article without discussion-ending accusations of being pro Trump and even a Russian asset. This quoted qualifier needed to be in there or else people would forever henceforth refer back to this…

Everything potentially controversial seems to need an “As a ____, ...”

Indeed

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's quite as nefarious as that. Like most humans journalists have opinions, and they are more likely to listen to things that confirm their opinions. Most people are not likely to ask "Is this really true?" of things that align with what they believe is probably true. Professional journalists are supposed to know about these kinds of biases - because if they do not they are professional only in name. F…

Don’t be too hard on them. The Internet destroyed most reporting, because now all the primary source material is available to anyone. I say “most” because there is still plenty of space for deep investigative work.

Somehow that same effect has made it in many ways harder to find the primary material. A million secondary sources (and search engines that recognize that most people just want secondary sources) means that instead of unavailable, now it’s a needle in a haystack problem. I think a deeper problem the internet created was that you’re just as likely to read the New York Times as your local paper now, hurting your local paper. Or if not NYT, then something else brought to you by the non—local Twitter/fb/Reddit/apple news/HN/etc aggregators. That and the whole expectation of freeness that they have to compete with.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar experience, where Jetbrains is effectively banned. Do you have any updated source that I could circulate to clear their name?

They wrote about it on their blog. https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/07/an-update-on-sola... https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/08/january-8th-updat... Summary: they have no idea what anyone is talking about, nobody has told them anything and there are no known issues with TeamCity. Later they did a blog post with security tips for locking it down but they're all pretty generic things that'd apply to any C…

1. Thank you for the response and resources.

2. As a paid NYT subscriber, I am becoming increasingly aware that they make some big mistakes in their reporting. They deserve some criticism, absolutely. I continue to expand my sources outside of the bubble and think critically when reading the NYT.

3. In 2012, Mitt Romney was mocked after a debate with Obama for saying Russia was a threat to the USA. That has aged poorly. Let’s not make the mistake of dismissing Russia as a legitimate cyber threat. Not all of the reporting on Russia is incorrect.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#237
post #135

If I want truth, I read or watch primary source material. Everything else is commentary.

> If I want truth, I read or watch primary source material. Everything else is commentary. For the record, that is completely impractical for reasons so obvious that it's surprising people suggest it with the frequency they do. Take science reporting, for instance. You think science reporting makes too many mistakes, so you're going to just go to the source and read the raw papers instead (a suggestion I've seen doze…

Is it impractical to read the cited sources in order to validate the science writers interpretations?

It's not uncommon for scientists of comparable prestige to arrive at two very different conclusions while looking at the same data set.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that graph set to keep the republican median constant and the rest relative from there? The associated link tells a much more nuanced story that I don't think really results in "mixed" being a fixed center point. But the article and graphic do show a deeply disturbing divide.

I agree the associated link doesn't really support the infographic, as it shows the changes in party mean, not the heterogeneity of views held by individuals. That said, it makes total sense to me. It seems inherent in the definitions of a conservative/traditionalist party and progressive/change based party. On an anecdotal level, think about views and behaviors that were commonplace in the 80s and 90s, and how they…

> It seems inherent in the definitions of a conservative/traditionalist party and progressive/change based party.

I don't really buy this. Despite parties using those terms, they don't really mean anything when any given thing had been the status quo at some point in history.

Were the people who opposed sodomy laws in the 20th century agents of change, or reactionaries pining for the way things were in the time of the Romans? Roe v. Wade has been the law for generations, so aren't Catholics who want to ban abortion now the agents of change?

If someone wants to cut federal spending as a percentage of GDP in half, are they a liberal (because it's a change from the historical practice since WWII) or a conservative (preserving the thing that existed before then)? Does it matter if the thing they want to cut is military spending or entitlements, when both are the long-term status quo? Is market competition liberal (a change from historical feudalism) or conservative (the existing system)? Is regulatory capture liberal or conservative?

Wouldn't the labels have to switch whenever a law is passed, since the advocates of change who achieved it would then become "conservatives" who want to preserve the change they made?

If the answer is that whatever your side wants to do is Change and any change the other side wants to do is Reactionary then you're just trying to justify a ratchet.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wrote about it on their blog. https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/07/an-update-on-sola... https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/08/january-8th-updat... Summary: they have no idea what anyone is talking about, nobody has told them anything and there are no known issues with TeamCity. Later they did a blog post with security tips for locking it down but they're all pretty generic things that'd apply to any C…

1. Thank you for the response and resources. 2. As a paid NYT subscriber, I am becoming increasingly aware that they make some big mistakes in their reporting. They deserve some criticism, absolutely. I continue to expand my sources outside of the bubble and think critically when reading the NYT. 3. In 2012, Mitt Romney was mocked after a debate with Obama for saying Russia was a threat to the USA. That has aged poor…

I agree the Russian government (as opposed to all of Russia) is absolutely a legitimate threat to the integrity of US networks, as are the governments of many other countries. And of course the US government is a proven threat to the integrity of both US and non-US networks.

Unfortunately the reporting on purported Russian hacking events seems invariably to collapse when examined. My conclusion from all this is that the Russian equivalent of the NSA or GCHQ (the GRU?) must be pretty good at not leaking and not being caught with obvious fingerprints on its operations. Every plausible connection between a serious hack and Russia I've seen is extremely circumstantial, whereas for the NSA or GCHQ we actually have their internal training materials and presentation slides.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#240
post #132
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your company bases security decisions on articles in the NYT then they’re beyond helping. Frankly that’s both laughable and incompetent. No professional (in any field) should base a decision solely on something written in any secondary source. Even if it was a specialist publication, a competent professional should do their own research, and look at the primary sources. Imagine if a doctor or civil engineer based…

Is it really that obvious? If a company gets a bad rap for being insecure, is it rational to go for them? Sure, you should do your due diligence, when picking any solution, but it's certainly a factor which could discount someone from a shortlist. You're not always the one to make a decision. When you are, there are a number of stakeholders who can influence your course of actions, and when solutions are similar enou…

The "rap" in this case is entirely artificial. There's no evidence TeamCity is insecure, or at least, no more insecure than any other CI system.
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