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A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

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Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#71

Post by alexvoda »

naringas wrote: post #16
ptsneves wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cordially disagree. I counter argue that anthropomorphizing of animals is fundamentally flawed. What understanding are you talking about? That with understanding the wild animal will not kill and maim randomly? As per other comments it seems evidence is against this reasoning. Highly experienced trainers who understand very well their animals end up dead. I think it is quite a high grounded statement to call profes…

> I counter argue that anthropomorphizing of animals is fundamentally flawed. and I further retort that humans are animals, and that classifying humans into "something other than animals" is fundamentally flawed. Why are so many humans wont on forgetting that we're an animals too? > The only understanding i can see is that having wild animals as pets should be banned as they normally are in most jurisdictions. I supp…

I wonder how much religion factors into the belief that humans are a fundamentally different category. Abrahamic religions certanly rely on this idea. No idea about others.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#73

Post by saiya-jin »

Spooky23 wrote: post #57
chmod775 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Though you could make a similar argument for domesticated animals like dogs. Especially larger dogs. Or humans! There are a lot of things that can be dangerous to humans, especially children, when they fly off the handle. There is always a risk. Most animals function emotionally like humans, but have no good way of communicating emotions like frustration and anger except through aggression. But locking up an…

> Though you could make a similar argument for domesticated animals like dogs. Especially larger dogs. Or humans! There are a lot of things that can be dangerous to humans, especially children, when they fly off the handle. Dogs, regardless of size are safe to coexist with humans provided they are treated appropriately from a sustenance and behavior/training perspective. That's the result of traits associated with be…

I think you are overdoing it, what OP clearly had in mind is that we all have the capacity for harm, yet not all humans are locked up simply because of this potential. I sure do have capacity to easily kill a fellow human in various ways, so does everybody I know and presumably so do you. There are multiple reasons why this capacity is never utilized, but that's another topic.

You are arguing few steps further about a person who realized this capacity and what society does to them.

I don't read much more into that.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#74

Post by badjeans »

Spooky23 wrote: post #57
chmod775 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Though you could make a similar argument for domesticated animals like dogs. Especially larger dogs. Or humans! There are a lot of things that can be dangerous to humans, especially children, when they fly off the handle. There is always a risk. Most animals function emotionally like humans, but have no good way of communicating emotions like frustration and anger except through aggression. But locking up an…

> Though you could make a similar argument for domesticated animals like dogs. Especially larger dogs. Or humans! There are a lot of things that can be dangerous to humans, especially children, when they fly off the handle. Dogs, regardless of size are safe to coexist with humans provided they are treated appropriately from a sustenance and behavior/training perspective. That's the result of traits associated with be…

> Dogs, regardless of size are safe to coexist with humans provided they are treated appropriately from a sustenance and behavior/training perspective.

Debatable...

"In 1994, the most recent year for which published data are available, an estimated 4.7 million dog bites occurred in the United States, and approximately 799,700 persons required medical care (1). Of an estimated 333,700 patients treated for dog bites in emergency departments (EDs) in 1994 (2), approximately 6,000 (1.8%) were hospitalized (3)."

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#75

Post by secondcoming »

user-the-name wrote: post #29
secondcoming wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know an unnecessary risk when I see one. Those breeds are banned in some countries for good reason.

Do you though? People with a lot more information than you have disagree strongly with you.

Fine. Let your children play with a loaded gun. It'll be mostly fine.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#76

Post by war1025 »

NoOneNew wrote: post #62
Pelic4n wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big reason that little dogs tends to be more violent is that they have to compensate their size by agression and appear larger than they are to fend off predators. My bodeguero (spanish terrier) is the most cuddly animal I have ever met but he will 1v1 the sun if I let him.

My thing is, I've never been bit by a dog bigger than a border collie. I've been bit by chihuahuas, Scottish terriers and whatever those small scraggly white dogs are. I can never remember their names. And these were considered home ready dogs. I feel safer around an abused pitbull than by a "well behaved" chihuahua. I'm not being funny or macho about it. I'm dead serious. While an adult guy like me doesn't care abou…

> While an adult guy like me doesn't care about the little rat bite, that's going to traumatize a little kid away from liking dogs.

Our neighbor has a "scraggly little white dog" as you describe.

It bit my (then three year old) daughter while she was riding her bike a year ago.

It certainly didn't do any favors for her trust of dogs.

Doesn't help that everyone and their mother seems to leave their dogs off leashes and then just say "oh don't worry, he's nice" as my kids are screaming their heads off while a creature roughly as big as they are sniffs and yips at them.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#77

Post by vagrantJin »

Jtsummers wrote: post #70
StavrosK wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but consider how often people hit others or throw things when they get mad, and now imagine the person is a 350 lbs bundle of muscles with reduced higher faculties.

Also, people tend to "hold back" unless they're in a true rage or have some other diminished capacity (temporary like from drugs and alcohol or permanent). Animals tend not to, which is why, pound for pound, they're a bit more frightening to deal with. I'd rather be in a fight against my 200lb BJJ training partner (who was all muscle, after some sessions I was sore for days as it felt like I'd been hit repeatedly by…

> German Shepherd that chased me into my apartment building

This is a story I want to hear.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#78

Post by vagrantJin »

chmod775 wrote: post #5
ignoramous wrote: post #3

Good call sending the Gorilla away (though it didn't end well for the Gorilla), because there is no controlling a 200-pound angry wild animal when its upset: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_(chimpanzee) And Bears, too: > Even though it may appear that the bear attacked for no reason, there was a reason. "You can train them and use as many safety precautions as you can, but you're still taking a chance. It's stil…

I agree. Though you could make a similar argument for domesticated animals like dogs. Especially larger dogs. Or humans! There are a lot of things that can be dangerous to humans, especially children, when they fly off the handle. There is always a risk. Most animals function emotionally like humans, but have no good way of communicating emotions like frustration and anger except through aggression. But locking up an…

> But locking up animals in cages - those who easily have the capacity to understand what you are doing to them - is cruel and immoral. So you either have to live with them or leave them be in their natural habitat.

I agree completely. I'll go as far as to say the idea of pets must perish.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#79

Post by watertom »

ignoramous wrote: post #3

Good call sending the Gorilla away (though it didn't end well for the Gorilla), because there is no controlling a 200-pound angry wild animal when its upset: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_(chimpanzee) And Bears, too: > Even though it may appear that the bear attacked for no reason, there was a reason. "You can train them and use as many safety precautions as you can, but you're still taking a chance. It's stil…

Wild is applied because animals behave in way we don't understand and it's much easier to chalk it up to the fact that they act without thought or reason, which we know is not true.

Animals think and reason, just because we don't understand their process doesn't mean they don't have a process.

Conversely unless we completely explain all of 'civilized' societies rules to these animals and secure agreement that they will follow all these rules, their is little chance they will behave within those guidelines.

I spent time with outlaw motorcycle clubs, and I would consider many of those groups the same as a gorilla or bear, the only difference would be that the bikers usually know the laws of society, but they reject hem.

Re: A gorilla who was brought up as a boy in an English village

#80

Post by Jtsummers »

vagrantJin wrote: post #77
Jtsummers wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, people tend to "hold back" unless they're in a true rage or have some other diminished capacity (temporary like from drugs and alcohol or permanent). Animals tend not to, which is why, pound for pound, they're a bit more frightening to deal with. I'd rather be in a fight against my 200lb BJJ training partner (who was all muscle, after some sessions I was sore for days as it felt like I'd been hit repeatedly by…

> German Shepherd that chased me into my apartment building This is a story I want to hear.

I never figured out if the guy got a dog that was ill-tempered, or if he made it ill-tempered. But my apartment building (loved the building, hated the neighbors) had no weight limit on dogs (learned after moving in, I had no pets so never even checked the policy). My first encounter with this particular dog was walking from my car in the parking lot back to the building. I heard it growling, guy held it on the lead while I made a brisk walk (not run) to the building.

My second encounter was actually inside. I lived on the first floor, not sure where he lived, but he was coming the opposite direction with the dog. It started dragging him, I hustled up the stairs (I was next to them, fortunately) while he regained control and got it outside.

The third encounter was the one I mentioned. I had returned from the gym (I walked there, it was a mile away) and was at the entrance when I heard the dog to my left. I looked and it was pulling on him, then it was free from him. Fortunately it had about 100' to cover before it would get to me and I got inside in a hurry (keypad entry, so at least there was no fumbling with keys and locks).

I really never wanted to be within 100' of that dog again, but they wouldn't evict him even after that incident. I moved a couple months later.

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