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Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

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Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#771

Post by charcircuit »

hn_acc_2 wrote: post #719

What "moat" does Bitcoin have protecting it from other crypto which may have more attractive features? It seems to me that it's just the first one that everyone's grandma has heard the name of. Some journalists will say BTC is just the "most stable" but the fact that it has the most miners is just a consequence of the high price, not the other way around. As for the technology, what is actually maintaining BTC domina…

I think you mean most secure, not most stable. It has the first mover advantage, it's well known, it's trustworthy. It's the coin with the largest market capital Technology wise it isn't that impressive, but it's simple and seems to work good enough. Another thing to remember is that a bitcoin's value is not necessarily tied to the effectiveness of the Bitcoin network. Bitcoins can be migrated and live on newer and better projects.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#772

Post by webinvest »

Arrath wrote: post #738

I have trouble seeing how Bitcoin would make a reasonable vehicle for everyday transactions as long as it is so volatile. Last week you could've bought a Model 3 for ~1.92 BTC. This morning you'd be spending ~1.58. That is a substantial change, and one side of the transaction would be taking a bath on it. Certainly as btc usage becomes more widespread the value would level out and the volatility would decrease. As it…

Deflating currencies are bad for day to day transactions because no one wants to spend them. Economic man will discard whichever currency has the worst inflation. However if you’re buying a Tesla, you aren’t doing it because you think it has a good ROI monetary-speaking, you’re doing it because you want a Tesla.

There may be cases of people who are fucked on cryptocurrency taxes due to excessive transactions and being able to buy a Tesla could be a nice parachute to exit their situation.

The most rational part of this situation is Tesla deciding to accept cryptocurrencies for payment. Appreciating currencies boost the balance sheet more than depreciating currencies.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#773

Post by xerxespoy »

pelliphant wrote: post #687
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some aspect every asset is part pyramid scheme.

Ok, but if I rephrase it as: I consider bitcoin to be more of a pyramid scheme then your average asset.

After 12 years and billions invested in its pyramid, the numbers appear to suggest it's also a much sounder investment than your average asset:

https://www.casebitcoin.com/images/stories/charliebilello_re...

Another way to look at Bitcoins meteoric rise over the past ten years is as a catastrophic crash in value of the assets it (and currencies like it) may be in the process of replacing.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#774

Post by patniemeyer »

ransom1538 wrote: post #159
exabrial wrote: post #3

Legitimizing Bitcoin more than offsets the environmental benefits of electric vehicles.

"Legitimizing Bitcoin more than offsets the environmental benefits of electric vehicles." Not in Iceland.

Not going to defend Bitcoin POW, but that's some world class Tesla FUD right there :)

First, I think JPMorgan, GS, MicroStrategy, Grayscale, pumping billions into BTC this year and the OCC announcing that banks can use blockchain for settlement probably has more to do with BTC being viewed as legit than TSLA jumping on board as a tech company.

Second, about 25% of energy is consumed in passenger transportation and Tesla is pretty much single-handedly moving the world to electrifying that making it a) 5x more efficient, b) possible to run from renewables.

Third Tesla is the only organization in the world ramping up to do planet-scale battery production that will make it possible to transition all energy production to renewables. (If people want to pay to produce and consume clean energy for arbitrary purposes that's fine by me... as long as they don't kill me in the process).

The idea that Tesla's influence on BTC mining will waste more energy than their electrification efforts have saved and/or redirected to renewables is nutty.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#775

Post by whb07 »

shortandsweet wrote: post #766
whb07 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not. But I’ll assume it’s not: You cannot eat gold or bitcoin. The “hoarders” at some point will want to consume be it a pizza or a lambo. Then there’s those who invest in ways to get more... what for it.. gold or bitcoin so they go out and purchase picks and shovels. Crazy stuff, extremely complicated when I write it as such. Btw, the FED made a trivial recession into a “great” on…

I can't tell if your post is sarcasm or not. Look at Apple, or any other large tech company. Hoarding billions in cash. Business lives to suck up any dollar possible and refuses to spend unless absolutely necessary because they are scared of risk or loss. They find their niche and that's it. Notice how there's no more research divisions in companies anymore? Like old school ATT.

No such thing as “hoarding”. That’s just a low thought argument like calling everyone you disagree with a racist.

Think of how many people’s retirement account owns Apple shares directly / indirectly. With Apple having $100b in cash, some portion of their valuation reflects that fact.

So perhaps, Apple would be worth N% less if it just distributed all the cash tomorrow back to shareholders, correct?

The point I’m making is that, the owners of the shares now own more valuable shares and thus benefit. The guy who is 95 leaves on his will that his favorite charity should get his Apple shares.

Now there’s a very real example that counters your “hoarding” claims on the assumption that no one benefits from their savings.

Not only that, Apple doesn’t keep the cash in a basement with dragons. But you’ve thought that one out I’m auree

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#776

Post by vzcx »

tengbretson wrote: post #615
afavour wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was forced to watch my government bungle a pandemic in the worst possible way and then asked to pay for it for decades. No I don’t think I will. That has very little to do with currency and everything to do with you not wanting to pay taxes. You may think that COVID response has been a catastrophic waste of money but if you'd lost your job would you have claimed the increased unemployment benefits? I suspect the…

> That has very little to do with currency and everything to do with you not wanting to pay taxes. > You may think that COVID response has been a catastrophic waste of money but if you'd lost your job would you have claimed the increased unemployment benefits? I suspect the vast majority of people would have. Do our expenditures like unemployment benefits actually have any relationship with tax revenue at this point?

Only weakly in that others will only extend credit to USG as long as their revenues are sufficient that they do not default.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#777

Post by flush »

zupreme wrote: post #556

This comment is unlikely to win me many friends here, but it is worth considering that while Bitcoin is, nominally at least, decentralized and free from government control, internet access is not. A simple glance at the trend of governments to partially or to fully shut down internet services to certain areas in times of unrest or mass protest means, in the case of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies requiring collect…

Definitely not a _new_ weakness, right? The vast majority of financial wealth is locked up in digital stores, which are even more so in the jurisdiction and immediate control of their respective governing body.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#778

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

shortandsweet wrote: post #766
whb07 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not. But I’ll assume it’s not: You cannot eat gold or bitcoin. The “hoarders” at some point will want to consume be it a pizza or a lambo. Then there’s those who invest in ways to get more... what for it.. gold or bitcoin so they go out and purchase picks and shovels. Crazy stuff, extremely complicated when I write it as such. Btw, the FED made a trivial recession into a “great” on…

I can't tell if your post is sarcasm or not. Look at Apple, or any other large tech company. Hoarding billions in cash. Business lives to suck up any dollar possible and refuses to spend unless absolutely necessary because they are scared of risk or loss. They find their niche and that's it. Notice how there's no more research divisions in companies anymore? Like old school ATT.

Sure but cash is held in banks and banks lend that out to be reinvested elsewhere (this investment channel is moderated by central banks). Not so with cryptocoins, it's just pure accumulation of tokens.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#779

Post by anthony_barker »

mrb wrote: post #489
rzodkiew wrote: post #338

Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

The Remittance use case may be better handled by Stellar.org

Bitcoin is the first time in history of a financial asset that no one can take from you plus you can send it. It is gold++

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#780

Post by sugarpile »

Pyramus wrote: post #398
sugarpile wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not leave comments like this without _some_ elaboration. Linking to a one hour long podcast is not sufficient, especially without so much as a timestamp.

Apologies, I elaborated further in another comment [1]. Here is a good overview in written form [1] but as long as you don't verify the credibility of the writer, it won't say much. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26065075 [2] https://www.plainsite.org/realitycheck/tsla.pdf

Thank you!
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