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Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

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Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#711

Post by benhurmarcel »

pelliphant wrote: post #534
sireat wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us have been around crypto for a long time (meaning since 2010-2011) and have not seen any progress in positive terms. Most of crypto growth has been pure speculation/ crypto2crytpo related services/morally questionable uses. Positives * ... Sort of positive/sort of negative: Evading capital controls Being your own bank.. Big Negatives: * POW energy use - huge one * POS stakeholder issue * Hard to use for Joe…

What are the positive sides of "Evading capital controls"? Also, does POS here mean "piece of shit"?

Proof of stake

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#712

Post by qqii »

Jsharm wrote: post #597
mrb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

The fees alone must have been astronomical. I was astounded that it took 4 hours last week for a transfer of mine to confirm (4 confirmations were required for the broker to recognise it as legit). And I'd paid $15 in fees!

This is one of the major issues with Bitcoin that'll probably remain unsolved on the main network. As far as I'm concerned at this point the core bitcoin model is impossible to change - any large changes will simply split the community as seen with Bitcoin Cash.

We've had the Lighting Network but that's not seen good adoption and has it's own problems. Sadly Bitcoin has first mover's advantage, name recognition and good reputation that can't be replicated by other more innovative solutions.

Can I ask why you chose Bitcoin specifically to make the transfer?

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#713

Post by agloeregrets »

charcircuit wrote: post #679
agloeregrets wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto at this point makes zero sense as any future of finance. It doesn't work. It's pretty much vaporware that has been hyped to the point that people didn't realize it will never work mass-scale as is. The hype drove early holders to massive income (like an MLM scheme) but ledger uses so much massive energy and power to process transactions that it is HORRIBLE for planet earth. Like running Crypo on the global sca…

If everyone on earth used Bitcoin the energy use would not go up. What would go up would be transaction fees because bitcoin only can process like 4 transactions every second. Proof of work is not the only trustless consensus algorithm and there are already plenty of projects on varieties of proof of stake.

Ha, I don't think you understand what you are saying. Okay, so what would happen if say transaction volume was 1000x current? how expensive would fees be? What would have to happen to make the hashrate go up so those fees are cheaper than credit card transactions (~2%) let alone ACH (Free)? Whats the point of bitcoin if buying a $3 coffee comes with $2 in fees too and the transaction takes 8 days?

It would seem you would need much more more and faster mining equipment to keep the fee low, right?

Bitcoin at current scale couldn't possibly run mass scale daily transactions as rates are WAY too slow and price variation is too high. You would have to scale mining as well, which seems a bit obvious to lead to massive global power use. the PoS work seems promising but has ZERO traction anywhere right now and has its own massive dangers, right now the entire market is basically the Gamestock drama but everyone seriously belives and thinks that this will be the future of money like as if the people investing in $GME were thinking Gamestop may just put walmart out of business.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#714

Post by rzodkiew »

bhupy wrote: post #621
rzodkiew wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are not really decentralised. Vast amounts of cryptocurrencies as they are designed right now are disproportionately held by the early adopters, who will inevitably engage in rent seeking in one way or another (I wish I was wrong on this one). Decentralisation has to happen through increasing trust between people, while cryptocurrencies are designed to replace trust. Yeah, current institutions controllin…

I think everything you said is correct about Bitcoin, but is that true of cryptocurrency in general? I think Bitcoin, which has its obvious flaws, is sort of the de facto flag-bearer of crypto, and more of a harbinger of things to come. I'm not yet convinced that Bitcoin will be the only cryptocurrency in widespread use, in the same way that the USD isn't the only fiat currency used in the world today.

I would like to see some sort of cryptocurrency to be successful, just to satisfy my inner nerd, but I'm afraid most of its problems might not be technical in nature.

Cryptocurrencies have potential to drastically change how recognition of value is created and distributed, so that's definitely an avenue to explore. Most of the big cryptos that are out there today don't really try to explore that, and currency is something external to value generation and recognition. I'd argue that even fiat currencies are actually closer to the value generation (as the money creation happens when banks give out loans, which at least are supposed to make world better). Purely from cryptocurrency perspective the only thing that it values is keeping the ledger alive. Exactly those self-sustaining by all means mechanisms are what leads to rot in many areas of life (academia, politics, corporations, you name it).

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#715

Post by minusSeven »

rzodkiew wrote: post #338

Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…

Cryptocurrencies as it exists today is nowhere capable of replacing currencies altogether. That doesn't mean cryptocurrencies don't have their uses. Almost everything illegal is now being done using crypto.

When people look at bitcoins they think of 2 things. 1. A form of investments that will give fantastic returns in future. 2. A technology that solves a problem.

Its the 2nd point that is more important about but the 1st that will always dominate conversations.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#716

Post by kwanbix »

freeplay wrote: post #639
bryanlarsen wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Union has been doing this for > 150 years.

Western Union is a nightmare to use. You need send and pickup in a physical location, sometimes the recipient needs specific forms of ID, and the fees are insane. I once sent $100 to someone in South America and it cost me $13. WU is a relic that targets and takes advantage of the less fortunate and those in 3rd world countries.

I am positive that you can send to a bank account. If you use the app, the fee is around 3 euros or 5.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#717

Post by icedchai »

rzodkiew wrote: post #338

Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…

Bitcoin is nearly useless as a currency. Every time I've spent it on something, I've regretted it. Example: The bitcoin I used to buy that mechanical keyboard in 2014 would be worth more than a new car today...

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#718

Post by kwanbix »

qqii wrote: post #694
kwanbix wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I send 1000 euros per month to another person on a monthly basis using an app called Remitly. It charges me a fixed fee of 3.99 IIRC. It arrives within the hour to her bank account. 24 hours at most. There are many others like it, Azimo, and even WU has an app. I don't see what is so special about what you say or I am missing something.

> unbanked Imagine the same situation but the other person doesn't have a bank account.

you can send it to different pick up locations.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#719

Post by hn_acc_2 »

What "moat" does Bitcoin have protecting it from other crypto which may have more attractive features?

It seems to me that it's just the first one that everyone's grandma has heard the name of.

Some journalists will say BTC is just the "most stable" but the fact that it has the most miners is just a consequence of the high price, not the other way around.

As for the technology, what is actually maintaining BTC dominance in the crypto world other than general first mover sentiment?

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#720

Post by FabHK »

rglullis wrote: post #576
neilwilson wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Bitcoin is a way for me to step outside that debt I did not want or deserve" Try paying your taxes in Bitcoin. Then you'll find that it has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with avoiding having your assets stripped by the IRS. You want to live in a jurisdiction, then you pony up the tokens that jurisdiction demands. Or you lose your liberty and everything you own.

> Try paying your taxes in Bitcoin. It's happening already: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-crypto-valley--canton-to-accep... > You want to live in a jurisdiction, then you pony up the tokens that jurisdiction demands. It has less to do with paying the taxes in the currency used by the State and more with protecting your wealth at the same that you can keep yourself liquid. If you ever experienced hyperinflation you wo…

Look, it's easy, regarding money supply ("ms"):

well administered flexible ms > fixed ms > badly administered flexible ms.

So, let central bankers do their job, unimpeded by politicians.

Case in point: the USD your father bought were fiat with a flexible money supply, administered by the Fed.

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