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The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

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Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#291

Post by Cthulhu_ »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #193
DoreenMichele wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a ridiculously cute little girl and I'm pretty damn sure a lot of my social issues as a young adult were rooted in getting essentially trained to play to the crowd as a toddler. At that age, it's a form of brainwashing and it's amazingly hard to root out after you become an adult and are puzzled that your antics no longer get you adoration. (PSA: Please don't do this to your own children. It's an awful thing to…

On a tangentially related note, I've noticed that many heterosexual men imagine the comedian Felix Kjellberg (AKA Pewdiepie) must be the height of attractiveness for women, while few heterosexual women find him particularly attractive. I found this very confusing, but after a few discussions with heterosexual female friends of mine we've come to the conclusion that the kind of playfulness and disinhibition this perso…

I dunno, if he wasn't such a prick I'm sure he'd be considered attractive enough. Not everyone's cup of tea, but then, who is?

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#292

Post by Cthulhu_ »

porb121 wrote: post #282
actuator wrote: post #71

Except for winning competitions, is there any natural advantage of bodybuilding for both men and women? For both, for advantage in most sports and attractiveness the typical calisthenics physique, sort of gymnast/football(soccer) one seems like the ideal one to me, yet a lot of people seem to be obsessed with getting overly buff.

bodybuilding is far less injurious than other strength sports and those are far less injurious than any team sports. you are almost certain to sustain significant acute injuries doing gymnastics, football, basketball, etc over a long training career. the same cannot be said for bodybuilding - you might develop overuse injuries or wear and tear, but still less frequently than in other sports. it's really, really, real…

I think it really depends. I mean the extremes of bodybuilding also involve rigid diets (maximizing calories for maintenance and bulking out, minimizing them + dehydration around competition, down to dangerous levels of fat (people have fainted at competitions), or lifting to the point of tearing muscles, prolapsing, etc. A competition weightlifter can only go for a record attempt once, maybe twice a year - their nerves are fried after that.

And there's enough dumb people around that try and lift too much without being spotted.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#293

Post by mattcwilson »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #271
b0rsuk wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised. Male attractiveness is simply NOT TALKED ABOUT much, especially around older people. But my mother, who is quite reserved, once blurted out that in his early years father looked 'like a young god'. And yeah, I've seen a black&white photo. He looked pretty much like Clark Kent. Square jaw, glasses, swole from muscles... except he wore a linen shirt instead of a suit. He always enjoyed labor. I woul…

Women having sexual preferences and predilections is not at all the same thing as men getting a ton of social pressure from all quarters to look and act a certain way. A very attractive female actress once said "I dress for women. I undress for men." For that and other reasons, I'm not convinced that male sexual preferences really drive the female tendency to try hard to look good and dress well, even though that's t…

Your experience, described this way, makes me wonder: to what extent are fashion and notions of sex appeal mostly unrealistic competitions, trapped in their own inertia, unhinged from actual human desire, just like those in the article.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#294

Post by 3131s »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #244
3131s wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to achieve 10% one must in general consciously malnutitrion and avoid eating food that the body can use to synthesize fat. No, no! If you are eating foods that humans should eat and exercising about an hour a day, you will naturally fall below 10% no matter what else you do. I never limit the amount of food I eat and in no sense am I "malnourished". I am 80 kilos at around 8% body fat and I still have a lot to spar…

> No, no! If you are eating foods that humans should eat and exercising about an hour a day, you will naturally fall below 10% no matter what else you do. Perhaps if you mean with that what human beings should eat without that exercise. > I never limit the amount of food I eat and in no sense am I "malnourished". I am 80 kilos at around 8% body fat and I still have a lot to spare before it would start to affect my at…

> Sprinters are very much malnourished to keep weight to a minimum.

This is NOT how any professional sprinter trains. Due to the nature of the exercise and the massive caloric expenditure that happens during sprinting, the mindset is more about trying to fit in in as much food as possible (while keeping to reasonable macro-nutrient ratios) rather than attempting to "keep weight at a minimum".

Haven't you ever seen how practically every 100m sprinter looks? It is not a physique that could be described as minimal, at all! My PB for the 100m is ~10.4s, so not quite pro but very fast.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#295

Post by bshimmin »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #290
temporallobe wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting affirmation from and to be attracted by others around you (total strangers included) is basic human nature. It’s why we adorn ourselves with clothing and perfume, not to mention our skin and hair, whatever gender you are. I am a male and always want to seem attractive in physique and in character to the opposite sex, and even in some level to the same sex. My wife insists she doesn’t care what other people th…

Honestly, a shower in the morning, a brush and maybe some product and being reasonably healthy already puts you at a great advantage over others. It doesn't take two hours of Bateman level prep (unless you aim to supermodel levels), or a life dedicated to sports.

Are you trying to say you don't use a herb-mint facial mask as part of your morning routine?

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#296

Post by Dma54rhs »

PeterisP wrote: post #255
3131s wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're wrong. The reason that every athlete should train every part of their body is because it raises overall testosterone and promotes blood flow throughout the entire body, which speeds development and healing of the muscle groups that are predominantly used in whatever sport... e.g. I'm a sprinter, so I train my upper body as well because it helps my legs grow and heal faster.

Many competitive sports have requirements to be unbalanced for weight reasons. E.g. pro cyclists have to avoid any upper body activities like swimming since they'll put on upper body mass that hurts their performance; the opposite is pro climbers where training quads will lower the performance since they'll grow extra leg mass that arms will have to lift.

You're correct. They didn't mean he can't train upper body but there are limits to upper body mass. A bodybuilder doesn't make a good footballer.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#297

Post by ddog78 »

roflc0ptic wrote: post #102
rmah wrote: post #82

I usually don't read articles like this, but it was so well written that I was sort of sucked into it. What was most interesting to me was not the various controversies about body aesthetics or even health consequences. What stood out to me was the author's description in the early parts of the article of how much she seemed to crave the approval of strangers, especially men. It was thought provoking and I'm still pr…

Since the pandemic started, my interactions with strangers of the opposite sex have been quite curtailed. Last week a vague acquaintance in my condo complex, 35 years my senior, stopped me and spent a good 30 seconds telling me how blue my eyes looked, and musing on how my outfit made them stand out especially. On the one hand, this is weirdly objectifying, and I kind of wish she had the slightest interest in who I a…

This is so interesting. I had a similar experience like what you described. A friend of mine drunk dialed me when she was partying with her girlfriends, telling me that her friend thought I was cute.

It felt weird - that she was sharing photos of me with her friends - and a bit objectifying too. But yeah, I had the same thought as you. It felt nice.

Also, your writing style is amazing. If you ever write a blog or a book, I would give it a try just on the basis of how well you articulate thoughts.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#298

Post by DoreenMichele »

mattcwilson wrote: post #293
DoreenMichele wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women having sexual preferences and predilections is not at all the same thing as men getting a ton of social pressure from all quarters to look and act a certain way. A very attractive female actress once said "I dress for women. I undress for men." For that and other reasons, I'm not convinced that male sexual preferences really drive the female tendency to try hard to look good and dress well, even though that's t…

Your experience, described this way, makes me wonder: to what extent are fashion and notions of sex appeal mostly unrealistic competitions, trapped in their own inertia, unhinged from actual human desire, just like those in the article.

I think there is a huge societal weight that is hard to escape because most sexual liaisons are also social relationships.

We date. We get married. The people we are romantically attached to in a public way get judged by others and that judgement impacts us.

The only way to separate your actual sexual preferences from your desire for social approval is to get involved secretly, out of the public eye. And that's inherently problematic.

How do you arrange such secrecy? Will it come back to bite you later? Can you successfully transition from secret love affair to public association with this person?

The plot for the movie Legally Blonde is rooted in family interference in Elle's boyfriend's love life. She's gorgeous and they are in love but she's not what his family wants for him.

There are countless other such examples in both fiction and the real world. Hollywood even coined a term for marriages intended to cover up socially disapproved preferences for LGBTQ stars during a certain era: the lavender marriage.

The world often interferes significantly with whom we can marry, which means it interferes significantly with whom we can openly be sexually involved with.

It's a quite difficult thing to escape, even for people who simply cannot make those expectations work for them (like gay men being forced to marry women and pretend to like sex with women, a still fairly common occurrence in the world). If your sexual orientation and preferences make those social expectations not overly onerous, the path of least resistance is to just go along to get along, at least publicly and superficially to some degree.

But I suspect it still does enormous harm in ways that go largely unrecognized.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#299

Post by vidarh »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #270
SamPatt wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference from being obese to being fit has been night and day for me. Self confidence plays a role so it's a sort of self fulfilling prophecy, but there's no question others treat you differently.

Can you please elaborate a bit? What differences did you notice?

Having been through this myself, my own experience:

Going from being ignored in nightclubs, and have people tap my shoulder if they needed to get past, to having people instead slide their hands over my pecs or stomach or pat them to get past (both men and women suddenly started doing that), getting my butt pinched half a dozen times a night, and having half a bunch of random strangers who also lifted weights want to high five me for no reason.

I'd never had women pick me up in nightclub before, as opposed to having to be the one to approach. Afterwards I did. I had random women want to make out with me within minutes of meeting on many occasions. Of course not all of that is necessarily down to the change in my appearance - it's very possible some of it was also down to my increased self confidence, but either way the difference was massive.

Looks and confidence are of course by no means the only things, but it's a multiplier, and you can up that multiplier significantly by lifting weights.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#300

Post by vidarh »

aksss wrote: post #215
SamPatt wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference from being obese to being fit has been night and day for me. Self confidence plays a role so it's a sort of self fulfilling prophecy, but there's no question others treat you differently.

Like walking into a bank wearing a suit and a good haircut vs ragged jeans and long hair. It’s also a big weakness of humans that they dole out trust this way, but it makes all the sense in the world that we do so.

I think one of the most remarkable demonstrations of this I know of is a study I remember seeing referenced somewhere (maybe "Influence" by Cialdini) that showed that people are more likely to cross a road on a red light if someone in a suit crosses it first.
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