The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding • Hacker News Board

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#221

Post by leshow » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

throwaway2245 wrote: post #136

leshow wrote: post #120

> What was left was mostly tilapia and cod, kale, low-sodium broth, and colorless, calorie-free shirataki noodles. Sasha’s rules around food and training, handed down to him from other coaches as bodybuilding doctrine, were inscrutable to me. I found myself living in a world where green bell peppers were OK and red peppers were not I just want to say that while this is representative of what some bodybuilders do. It'…

> Anyone who is saying one bell pepper type is okay... This assumes that Sasha's only concern with food consumption is nutrition alone, where other aspects of discipline and adherence are likely to also be important. Asking for red, green and blue but specifically no brown M&Ms doesn't mean that you think brown M&Ms are fundamentally different in any way: there was another reason why Van Halen did that.

That's not why it's done though. It will often be accompanied by pseudoscience justification that doesn't hold up to rationality or accepted science.

Even if that wasn't the case though, what do you expect to be gained by enforcing that discipline?

You have a finite amount of variables you can control, and wasting time thinking about details that don't matter is a massive drain. When training for a show, you should be focussing your effort on the things that make the biggest difference: overall food intake, macros, exercise, resistance training, meal timing, micros, etc.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#222

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

TeaDrunk wrote: post #130

Jtsummers wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I get your point. They are two men with very different base body types. But even looking at Phelps, especially at his prime in the Olympics, he has no shortage of muscles but has obviously trained with performance as a goal over presentation .

I'm confused because the parent poster is saying there are ways to maintain Brad Pitt's physique AND slim down by swimming, so I looked at a swimmer and didn't see this.

[deleted]

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#223

Post by leshow » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

andreareina wrote: post #184

leshow wrote: post #120

> What was left was mostly tilapia and cod, kale, low-sodium broth, and colorless, calorie-free shirataki noodles. Sasha’s rules around food and training, handed down to him from other coaches as bodybuilding doctrine, were inscrutable to me. I found myself living in a world where green bell peppers were OK and red peppers were not I just want to say that while this is representative of what some bodybuilders do. It'…

> it's not fair to judge bodybuilding based on that It's bunk, but if it represents a large portion of the population then I'd say it is fair to judge bodybuilding based on that; community and culture are part of the sport. (I don't know any bodybuilders even from my gym rat days so I don't make any claims as to what the common dieting methods actually are; the ones I knew that did strength sports were pretty much fo…

> It's bunk, but if it represents a large portion of the population then I'd say it is fair to judge bodybuilding based on that;

Do you usually judge groups based on the worst actors in them?

Part of the problem is that at the high levels of bodybuilding everyone is on steroids and other drugs, thyroid, clenbuterol, diuretics, etc and there aren't any studies to tell people how those should be taken in order to make yourself really lean-- those are the spaces that pseudoscience jumps into the most.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#224

Post by eredengrin » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

bluecalm wrote: post #110

gamblor956 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins ), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally…

Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing. That's exactly the problem with lying about steroids. It took a while for Arnold and his successors to admit that they were on 1000mg of test per week (plus other stuff of course; normal production of even high test men is below 100mg…

> Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing.

How widely are you thinking, and where are you getting your stats? People have been using steroids for decades now, so comparing pre-steroid athletes to modern day athletes is apples and oranges. Exercise science has come a long way over the decades, not to mention the cultural ideal body images have also changed.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#225

Post by gamblor956 » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

jonnyone wrote: post #73

gamblor956 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins ), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally…

>Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear While it's true that the Schwarzenegger look isn't in vogue, it's a bit of a myth to think that steroid usage would lead to that look in any short amount of time. There are many steroid "stacks" (meaning some kind of testos…

I don't doubt that many actors have used steroids, especially in the past. I simply doubt that many stars use them today, given that they don't need to anymore. Stars are given months to get in shape before filming begins (in the case of the Marvel actors, approximately a year before filming), and that's plenty of time for someone reasonable in shape to develop a muscular physique without steroids.

Getting a visible 6-pack is a lot easier than people think it is. It doesn't require steroids, just discipline and time.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#226

Post by op03 » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:30 AM UTC

rmah wrote: post #82

I usually don't read articles like this, but it was so well written that I was sort of sucked into it. What was most interesting to me was not the various controversies about body aesthetics or even health consequences. What stood out to me was the author's description in the early parts of the article of how much she seemed to crave the approval of strangers, especially men. It was thought provoking and I'm still pr…

Reward Dependence - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_dependence

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#227

Post by gamblor956 » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

samatman wrote: post #154

gamblor956 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins ), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally…

This is just wrong. Nujani is on gear, and what's more, he has an NDA which means he can't talk about it even if he wanted to. I can't prove it, of course. But don't fool yourself, that's what's happening. Look at his jawline if you don't believe me, what diet is supposed to do that?

Nujani is on gear, and what's more, he has an NDA which means he can't talk about it even if he wanted to.

Najani gave a series of press interviews in 2019/2020 as part of the original press campaign for The Eternals, so I don't know why you think an NDA would apply here. (And for that matter, the SAG agreement with the studio would generally bar an NDA of that nature.) He had a year to get into shape, and a wife to make sure he kept to his diet, and that sort of transformation is definitely doable for a normal guy in a year. If anything, his transformation is pretty underwhelming given that he had a full year to get ready; if he had been doing steroids his arms and chest should be significantly larger.

Look at his jawline if you don't believe me, what diet is supposed to do that?

His jawline in that picture is natural; that's what it can look like when you have <9% body fat and you're extremely dehydrated and sucking in your cheeks when the picture is being taken.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#228

Post by oliv__ » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #65

orasis wrote: post #2

Every display sport has a consensus aesthetic that is being optimized for. Don’t expect to be judged well if you’re showing parkour steez at a gymnastics competition. It doesn’t mean the sport is wrong, it just maybe means you should pioneer an alternative sport or category to suit your target aesthetic.

There's a line somewhere where the sport does become wrong IMO. For a different example, dog shows have selected for objectively unhealthy genes (see sloped back & hip dysplasia). It would be neat to see some sort of blend of function and form scoring. Look ripped, but put those muscles to work as well. Bodybuilding & weightlifting meets gymnastics. The need to perform athletically puts on some guardrails- less starv…

"Bodybuilding & weightlifting meets gymnastics"

That's called calisthenics

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#229

Post by gamblor956 » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:47 AM UTC

bluecalm wrote: post #110

gamblor956 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins ), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally…

Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing. That's exactly the problem with lying about steroids. It took a while for Arnold and his successors to admit that they were on 1000mg of test per week (plus other stuff of course; normal production of even high test men is below 100mg…

Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing.

Athletes train for performance, generally meaning muscle strength and endurance. Actors train for appearance, generally meaning muscle size. These different training goals generally require very different training programs.

Would you take it if million dollars and fame were on the line? We know they take it because we know quite well how juiced up physiques look.

Clearly, you don't, or you would see immediately that Rudd and Najani are not juiced. If they were or had been juicing, they would be significantly more muscular after a full year of training.

Besides, if someone who is not a professional athlete did 6 hours of serious training per day their body would give up sooner rather than later unless the recovery was "enhanced".

With proper exercise form, proper diet and recovery, the human body can sustain elevated levels of serious training indefinitely. Our armed forces do it all the time; only 2.5% of the military uses steroids.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#230

Post by ip26 » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

oliv__ wrote: post #228

ip26 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a line somewhere where the sport does become wrong IMO. For a different example, dog shows have selected for objectively unhealthy genes (see sloped back & hip dysplasia). It would be neat to see some sort of blend of function and form scoring. Look ripped, but put those muscles to work as well. Bodybuilding & weightlifting meets gymnastics. The need to perform athletically puts on some guardrails- less starv…

"Bodybuilding & weightlifting meets gymnastics" That's called calisthenics

I was thinking specifically of gymnastics scoring, which has both technical & aesthetic grading.