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Don't Offer a Free Plan

nofreeplan.com

131–140 of 232 posts

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing in the post indicated hubris to me. Claiming that you are personally responsible for Jira and Trello's marketing cut-through is sheer hubris. And furthermore: > The alternative is to spend time and money to discover that yourself That's not an "alternative", that is simply professional consulting behaviour. Making the recommendation whilst declining to invest in the quality of that recommendation is hubris.…

Noticing that due to time/money constraints familiar tech with a free testing plan gets better chances of accepting is not the same as demanding freebies. If you have time and money to do a full review of every alternative available, go for it - don't forget to add training / new tech implementation to the budget. If you're in a "we need something that we know can do X now" position, you'll likely get a recommendatio…

This simply confirms an assertion that low-quality advice is sought by companies that do not value advice, i.e. that their willingness-to-pay for information is low to nil.

Somewhat tautological perhaps, but also, thereby, not a compelling reason to offer a free plan, nor to be proud of being glib.

In addition highlighting that any comparison between an influencer and a consultant depends on false equivalence, which is why I don't consider them part of a product ecosystem (esp. when compared with ISVs, VARs and MSPs), or a substitute for thoughtful, professional advisors.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#132
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience too. ALWAYS have a lifetime free plan. It's okay to make it a useless lifetime free plan (your data disappears every 2 weeks; you have a 3 email per day quota; etc.). It just need to be enough to seriously evaluate your product, and if it has APIs, to develop to them. There are sometimes good reasons to do more, and sometimes not. But that's the minimum. In the early days of AWS, I would build thing on…

Me experience is the exact opposite. As a user: - If I need the service and only intend to use it for a very small project, I love forever free plans. Because I know I can subscribe use your server time and forget my account forever. I often subscribe with a temp email so that I don't even receive your emails anymore. - If I seriously need the service and is ready to pay for it, I don't really care about the free for…

How do you feel about a free-forever plan behind a credit card screen?

Google Cloud is this way: stay below their free usage limits for some services and you'll never need to pay; but you need to give them your card up-front because it's a post-paid service and they need to ensure they can charge you if-and-when you do go over those limits.

Or, for another approach: how about a plan that's free, but where there's a small one-time fee on signup, regardless of the plan you choose? (You can be upfront to your users and tell them it's a KYC measure, if you like.)

Or, how about a free service, but gated with a real KYC/AML process on signup (of the "sign in through your bank" or "upload your driver's license to this third party" variety.)

Any of these approaches, IMHO, would filter out the 4% of spammers; and also act as a barrier to anyone who isn't serious about eventually trying the service — while not being as much of a barrier to people like the GP poster, who take five months to get around to testing a service before becoming a diehard fan of it, and don't want to be paying for those five months, but also look in apprehension at the idea of possibly having to spend time trying to get their (as-yet-unused) trial extended.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#133

Anecdata: Trello and Jira both have free plans that I used that caused me to recommend them for paid usage at multiple companies I’ve worked with. Those free plans resulted in $xx-$xxxx monthly subscriptions. Asana has a paid plan with a 5-user minimum limit. I never bothered to even try it since I wouldn’t have the extended time to play with it. As a result it never even got mentioned to companies I’ve worked with.…

My experience too. ALWAYS have a lifetime free plan. It's okay to make it a useless lifetime free plan (your data disappears every 2 weeks; you have a 3 email per day quota; etc.). It just need to be enough to seriously evaluate your product, and if it has APIs, to develop to them. There are sometimes good reasons to do more, and sometimes not. But that's the minimum. In the early days of AWS, I would build thing on…

This sounds like a case of a free plan makes sense when the target for the free plan is someone without purchasing authority looking for leverage.

> Would you rather have 10 users that pay $100 monthly, or 1,000 users that pay $1?

I think this question is meant as an illustration but perhaps it hints at a rule of thumb. Let me substitute a different question and see what you think:

Do you want 1000 users paying $500 a month, or 5 million users paying a $1 a month?

5 million suggests a broad but shallow appeal to the app, and I don't doubt at all that the author has seen customers exhibit all of the listed behaviors - and more. But perhaps an application with a narrow but deep appeal makes sense with a free tier. You can always expand the appeal of your product to reach more markets once you have a proven track record and word of mouth working for you.

I would also say that at a minimum, if you don't let people test drive your application, you have to be quite skilled at creating demos and walkthroughs, and encourage third parties to do the same. Growing that kind of talent in house is probably too slow and unreliable. You're going to have to pay for at least one person to give you good advice.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#134
post #108

I would say that statement is incorrect. In many ways it depends on your SAAS product's economy. Having free users have it's own benefits: 1) You can consider them as beta-testers as they will help you find issues with product faster 2) The most critical users frequently covert to evangelists if you listen to them (considering their "demands" are reasonable) 2.1) It's really useful to have active community around you…

3) is quite possibly the worst thing imaginable to a software person that doesn't like social networks, of which there is much more prevalence than the human baseline

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#135

I wrote a piece about power users recently that gained some notice on HN a little over a week ago. It seems to fit in the same mindset as this, except written from the power user’s perspective: https://tedium.co/2021/01/27/power-users-history/ Comment thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978396 This honestly feels like my argument written from the perspective of the product maker. I hope we meet in the…

There's a very simple reason companies like Google treat users like crap and kill good products: growth rate. Google & co's business models revolve not around meticulously building and charging for great products (classic business model) but controlling Internet marketshare. The more users reliant on them, the more money they make. Quality be damned, all they want is a bigger DAU metric. Good, maintained products? Customer service? Heck with it. That's not their business.

How did it come to this? Well, at least in the short term, this kind of business busts up traditional high-quality paid tools. If a Google-like business enters a market where a high-quality paid competitor exists, they will subsidize something similar with VC money and suck users away, bankrupting the competitor. Then, with the power they have gained they are free to focus on monetizing their users, which is a story for another time.

This is especially made easier by the fact that it is really difficult to get paid on the Internet: you are essentially selling access to information, not a physical good (all of this might not apply to businesses rooted in the physical world like Amazon and Airbnb). When an average user sees a free service and a paid service both offering what is essentially information, they will go free every day. Since the price of reaching people on the Internet is so low, and the difficulty of getting paid is high, freemium platforms emerge and can outcompete paid competitors by leveraging this fact.

As a consequence to this, quality tools have retreated into paid niches, driven to raise prices. We are essentially left with two product types: gigantic Google-like freemium platforms, and high-quality high-expense alternatives (e.g. Feedly in the Google Reader example). While the former might suck at serving their users and providing value/quality, they make so much money that a cheap, quality tool or a paid, large platform will be quickly snuffed out like a candle without huge investor subsidies.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#136
I'm not on board with this. It highly depends on the type of software or service you offer. Anecdotal example: I've used a lot of "free for students" or "free for personal use" software during my university time and switched a lot until I found the product that was best for me. When I started working I wanted to use the same product because I was used to it. That's why the company I worked for payed several thousand Euros for JetBrains IDEs for example and I even have a personal license for freelance work.

Regarding the argument that free users don't convert: this does not mean the would have bought the product when there was no free plan. Maybe the product is not good enough, maybe it does not integrate in to the user's workflow, maybe they tried and moved on.

And if I offer a free plan people have to apply for, what happens if I spend more time reviewing those applications as I had to "support" users on the totally free plan?

If you offer a free plan: clearly state there is no official. Maybe offer a public forum where users can help each other. You'll probably find users using your product in a way you had not thought of and use this to advance your product.

If you don't offer a free plan, have a long enough trial period and totally consider this:

> Bonus points if you don't require payment details, as this may increase the friction of an employee of a larger business from trying it out without approval.

In my company I simply can't give payment details without going to the whole way via department head and accounting department which usually takes a couple of days and is an annoying hassle. And privately am I extremely reluctant to give my payment data for a trial. I don't know how save it is, I don't know how easy it is to cancel my trial subscription and so on. Too many scams out there, can't be cautious enough.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#137
It's always hilarious to read these posts by silver-spooned entrepreneurs complaining about those oh-so-horrible entitled users.

Well, and saddening that this drivel seems to be a reliable way to get on the HN home page.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#138
I must be weird in that I like my free users. They’re often the source of decent insights about the product, and it fits with my values of running a company.

I do see some of the points of the article though. There are a handful of ‘entitled’ free users, but in my experience they are few and far between...

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#139
There are a lot of misconceptions around freemium and the value of non-paying users. Many of these you can’t see until you’ve gone through the cycle of creating a business, marketing it, getting customers, losing customers, repeat. Here are some of the things I’ve learned, either from experience or in-the-thick-of-it observation.

1. It’s rare for a business to experience dominantly viral, product-driven growth. Most don’t, including the successful ones! The few businesses that do succeed that way tend to attain ubiquity, so people mistakenly assume a free tier is the best path. (This winner’s bias must be a known fallacy, but if so I don’t know its name.)

2. Moving churn earlier in the customer journey speeds up iteration cycles and increases fidelity of feedback. We’ve all seen “hugely successful” apps that get a lot of users but never find a business model. Maybe if they started charging earlier in the customer journey they would have found product-market fit. It is extremely difficult to calculate customer value and pay for marketing without rapid feedback.

3. Not charging users can create hideous feedback loops. Just take a look at Facebook.

4. Free tiers are a consequence of the non-linear reality of venture-backed teams. Backing capitalists prefer a 5% chance of scoring 1,000 than a 50% chance of scoring 10, so they will of course encourage freemium (or rather, metrics like “daily active users”) alongside a whole host of other too-risky-for-most methods.

5. The author is completely correct that those willing to pay are the easiest to serve, and those unwilling to pay are most likely to need help, leave poor reviews, and give misleading feedback.

6. Again as highlighted by the author, the infrastructure behind multiple tiers is way more costly than you’d expect. It’s easy to get caught in the business mechanics when one could be making the product and marketing better. How costly do you think it will be? Multiple that by 3 to get the actual engineer/design hours, now multiple it by 3 again to understand how distracting it can be.

Re: Don't Offer a Free Plan

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience too. ALWAYS have a lifetime free plan. It's okay to make it a useless lifetime free plan (your data disappears every 2 weeks; you have a 3 email per day quota; etc.). It just need to be enough to seriously evaluate your product, and if it has APIs, to develop to them. There are sometimes good reasons to do more, and sometimes not. But that's the minimum. In the early days of AWS, I would build thing on…

This sounds like a case of a free plan makes sense when the target for the free plan is someone without purchasing authority looking for leverage. > Would you rather have 10 users that pay $100 monthly, or 1,000 users that pay $1? I think this question is meant as an illustration but perhaps it hints at a rule of thumb. Let me substitute a different question and see what you think: Do you want 1000 users paying $500…

> This sounds like a case of a free plan makes sense when the target for the free plan is someone without purchasing authority looking for leverage.

Well, that. Or somebody with leverage trying to reduce risks before jumping into a platform. Or somebody evaluating the options before deciding. Or somebody just making something the quickest way possible, leaving slow decisions for later...

There are many cases that fit the same sequence. They do impose different requirements on the free tier, but I don't think you'll ever measure them well enough to discover what is what.

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